Dear Church Attender

This is what you need to know.  This post is taken from a response to a commenter on my recent post Church Anyone?  Please look at the video and be warned that it exposes the fleshliness of both Johnson and MacArthur.  May Christ richly bless you as you follow Him!

Dear church attender,

What you are saying can best be answered by the following passage:

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, come evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head–Christ–16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

First, Jesus Christ gives to His body the different saints who are prepared by Him through the Holy Spirit and the Spirit inspired knowledge of His Word for the equipping of the saints so they can minister and edify the body of Christ.

Second, the ministry of the body to one another will increase the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God so that God’s saints are a perfect reflection of Jesus Christ being filled with His Spirit and the knowledge of Him.

Third, false teaching purposely introduced into the body by deceptive men and women who use crafty cunning and deceitful plotting is intended to retard this unity and the growth of believers into the likeness of Jesus Christ. Think about the church in Antioch where godly men were instructing the believers, they were first called Christians there because they reflected the holy nature of Christ. Today, anybody who attends a church that is considered of the “Christian tradition” is called a Christian and so the name of Christ is blasphemed.

Fourth, these God given pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc. will expose and oppose all false teaching. They won’t pick and choose as to whom they label a false teacher and whom they will accept. Case in point, John MacArthur says that C. S. Lewis is a Christian, he may be by today’s standard, but by the standard of the Word of God he is a heretic that teaches ecumenical universalism where individuals can be saved apart from conscious faith in Christ. MacArthur also quoted Lewis in his book Hard to Believe although he warned against this false doctrine that Lewis championed. Here is something to consider, Philip Johnson came over to MacArthur’s ministry from Moody Press, printer of books. The Christian book industry is a multi-billion industry. Lewis’s books bring in multiple millions. Here we see an example of crafty deceit by MacArthur and Johnson, since Johnson works on John’s books, to lead people astray. Another case in point, if you view the video starting at time mark 41:08 you will see what John really thinks about the glorious Scriptures and the Holy Spirit. This man is a man of flesh.

Fifth, the ministry of the body of Christ should cause us all to grow up in all things into Christ who is the head as we minister the truth of God’s Word to one another. Dear church attender, you testified yourself that this isn’t happening in the typical man led church, and no wonder. The preponderance of churches today are not led by men filled with the Holy Spirit, but filled with the flesh. Again, the video shows Philip and John operating in this manner.

Sixth, this growth in Christ and love will cause Christ’s body to be effective in sharing the truth of God’s Word and bring genuine new believers into the body. John’s church may be growing, but he is an ecumenical teacher who is leading the body astray. Don’t think that just because he has a doctrinal statement on his website that he is doing the work of Christ, these statements are designed to get people through the doors so they can be deceived by the wicked one. Here is my own experience with Grace church.

Years ago I had a family member who was living a godless life and it was breaking my heart. I went to the LA area to visit another relative and had opportunity to interact with this family member. It was not good. I just so happened to have a copy of Owen’s Apostasy that I was reading, from which Pink quoted in the article posted by Maria, and I definitely felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit, although I was trying to live to please Christ. I went to Grace church hoping for encouragement when dealing with my family member. The message John preached was only condemning and I left disheartened. On my trip home I had the opportunity to listen to the Bible on CD. I was listening to Galatians 6 and the Holy Spirit used the following verses to comfort and encourage my heart:

1 Brethren, if an man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:1-2

It was like a crystal clear stream refreshing my soul compared to the murky water at Grace church. This family member has since repented and is doing much better, praise God. He led us by His Holy Spirit to bring the family member close to where we are and we rejoice to see the progress in this person’s life. Praise God.

This is the difference between fleshly intervention and godly intervention led by the Holy Spirit. John doesn’t even believe such things are possible based on what he has said in the video above. What blasphemy! Check out time mark 37:58

This is what God’s Word says in 2 Timothy 3:4-5 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 2 Timothy 3:4-5

Seventh, John MacArthur is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, just like the majority of the men and women who claim to minister in Christ’s name. He wants to teach us and become a wall between us and the Holy Spirit, Who Christ said would lead us into all truth. He should be turned away from based on the previous verse.

13 “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. John 16:13

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things….27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:20 & 27

Dear church member, you along with the majority of church goers have a very low standard, and it is not the standard of God or His Word. I will believe what He tells me in His Word and walk by the power of the Holy Spirit so that I do not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Amen! Even so come Lord Jesus and rapture Your church out of this insanity that masquerades as the faith once for all delivered to the saints. Amen!

https://holdingforthhisword.wordpress.com/2016/02/12/church-anyone/

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/macarthur/general.htm

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81 Responses to Dear Church Attender

  1. Bob Wheeler says:

    Well, I feel honored to have a whole blog post directed toward me! But I guess I once did one with you primarily in mind.
    If you don’t mind my asking, what was it in the sermon you heard from MacArthur that was so discouraging?

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    • Eliza says:

      Did you check out time mark 41:08? He disparaged the doctrines of Scripture dealing with salvation. He has such an arrogant attitude. He understands the text before the Holy Spirit illumines it for him. That is just fleshly wishful thinking. This is what the Bible teaches:

      10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:10

      Apparently John is so self-illuminated, or taught by others, that the Holy Spirit doesn’t need to teach him anything. And by the way, I don’t find it discouraging, I find it appalling. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Bob Wheeler says:

        I/m not sure what MacArthur meant at 41:08, although I think you have to pay attention to the question from Philip that he was answering. He obviously was trying to counter the Pentecostal teaching of divine guidance apart from Scripture — but what his own view of spiritual illumination is I’m not sure. For my own view you can look at my recent blog post on “Spiritual Theology,” which was based on Eph. 1:15-19.
        I am not in a good position to try to defend MacArthur, since I have never paid much attention to his ministry — I generally prefer to read older authors like Owen and Pink. But I did have the occasion last evening to ask the pastor of our local GARBC church where I attend most Wednesday nights what his opinion of MacArthur was. He noted that MacArthur has devoted his ministry to the exposition of Scripture, but is very independent minded, doesn’t take advice from others, and sometimes comes up with debatable interpretations of Scripture. My guess is that probably the main weakness in MacArthur’s ministry is that because he is such a well-known figure he functions as a kind of “lone ranger” with minimal accountability to others, whereas Christ’s intention for the church is that it be led by a board of elders who would interact together and act as a check on each other. (Quick now, who was “the pastor” of the Church at Ephesus?).
        Having said that, I think we have to be careful about accusing someone like him of “crafty deceit.” It is one thing to look at something he actually said, and show where it is unscriptural. It is another thing to impugn his motives without knowing the man personally. My guess is that he is being perfectly sincere in what he does, although he may be misguided at times. But we must be very careful when criticizing others not to violate the Ninth Commandment. Our Lord said, “But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment” (Matt. 12:36). Let us fear and tremble!

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        • gracealone1 says:

          JM’s “intentions” or his “sincerity” are completely immaterial to his teachings (many of which are heretical), nor does the Scripture you quoted speak to ‘intentions’ or ‘sincerity’ rather it speaks to precisely what it said “every idle WORD” as we see in the following verse(v.37): “For by your WORDS you will be justified, and by your WORDS you will be condemned.” This has nothing to do with intentions or sincerity. If his intentions and sincerity were sincere then he would get his words right BEFORE he opened his mouth AND when error is exposed he would own it and repent of it—-which he has never really done. The age old line of not being able to see/know what is in a man’s heart is nothing more than a cop-out and excuse rendered for those in error who are still one’s golden boy preacher-whomever that may be. We know enough of a man’s heart by his fruit Matt 7:15-20.

          Darrel

          Liked by 2 people

          • Eliza says:

            Amen, no where in Scripture is it declared that we must know a person’s heart before we condemn them as false teachers, they just have to teach God’s Word falsely and persist in it without contrite repentance. John MacArthur continues in his error, and defends it with stalwart persistence,leading others astray, the marks of a false teacher.

            Liked by 2 people

          • Bob Wheeler says:

            I was talking about that the accuser had said, not the accused. The specific accusation is that MacArthur is engaging in “crafty deceit,” which, if I’m not mistaken, is a phrase consisting of two WORDS. And the accusation implies that the accuser knows for a fact that MacArthur is consciously and deliberately misleading the public, which is a very, very serious accusation to bring against someone who is a recognized elder in the church (I Tim. 5:19).

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          • Eliza says:

            Yes, and I have proof for that statement as pointed out in what I said about JM stating that C. S. Lewis was a Christian, when he was directly asked that question, although Lewis believed that one could be saved without conscious faith in Christ, something that MacArthur specifically warned against in his book Hard to Believe, in which he also quoted Lewis. You can’t tell me that MacArthur never read Mere Christianity, and he wasn’t aware of the false teaching and beliefs of Lewis, nor did anyone ever bring up his error to him. I have a copy of the letter that I wrote to him on June 6, 2008, in which I warned him about the error of Lewis, while expressing my appreciation for the book that JM wrote, Hard to Believe.

            On June 16, 2008 John MacArthur stated publicly during a question and answer session that he believed that C. S. Lewis came to a “true faith in Christ” despite the fact that he was warned about the deception of Lewis. I don’t think I am the only person who has ever been concerned about C. S. Lewis. One of the authors that MacArthur has read and promoted, Martyn Lloyd-Jones said this about Lewis: “Because Lewis was essentially a philosopher, his view of salvation was defective in two key respects: (1) Lewis believed and taught that one could reason oneself into Christianity, and (2) he was an opponent of the substitutionary and penal theory of the atonement.” This was quoted in Christianity Today December 20, 1963.

            This is a quote John MacArthur gave about Lewis: “Lewis was no theologian, and there’s no doubt his views were squidgy on the question of eternal punishment. He held other views that make old-model evangelicals shudder.” So John was well aware of the theology of Lewis, and yet he doesn’t warn against him, he instead he says Lewis has true faith in Christ. Now, reason with me here, how can one hold unbiblical views about Christ and still have true faith in Jesus Christ? Yes, we believe in the Person Jesus Christ, but our belief in Him must be firmly grounded in the truth of the Scriptures, otherwise we are believing in a false Christ. We are warned about this in 2 Corinthians chapter 11.

            4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted–you may well put up with it!…13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:4 and 13-14

            Finally, I had an email exchange with Phil Johnson, you know the man who is instrumental to Grace to You, and I feigned allegiance to the doctrines of Lewis in those emails. He rightly warned me that I couldn’t get to heaven believing those doctrines. However, when I revealed my technique to confront him on the doctrines of Lewis, that was the end of the email exchange. This is what Johnson had to say about Lewis: “I take a similar position. I would not look to Lewis for theological instruction. For one thing, he was no theologian, and he didn’t have the best teachers when it came to doctrinal matters.” Phil Johnson said this about Lewis, however, I couldn’t be saved believing the very things that Lewis taught, but he was somehow a believer and is in heaven.

            This brings up the question, “How much false teaching do we get to believe and teach before we are called a false teacher?” You and I have had disagreement on this question before. God’s Word is our standard and guide in all things and according to what He has said in 2 Peter 3, twisting the Scriptures is enough to make us condemned. Our great God and Savior has no patience with those who throw off sound doctrine and believe and teach lies through twisting the Scriptures:

            15 And consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they also do the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked: 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen. 2 Peter 3:15-18

            So there is ample evidence that John MacArthur and Phil Johnson purposefully mislead people in regards to a dangerous false teacher, C. S. Lewis, who has been instrumental in leading many people into false doctrine and into perdition. This alone is sufficient to label him a deceitful worker, but combined with the other instances where he has championed false brethren and taught false doctrine, it is unequivocal that John MacArthur is a deceitful worker. We must be true to Christ and to His Word, no matter with whom we have to part company and expose. These verses out of 2 Timothy sums it up well.

            12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse,deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:12-17

            Evil workers are deceived, and they spread their deception, corrupting others. Their false teaching will always be contrary to the Holy Scriptures, which alone, make the man of God complete, and furnished for every good work. We have all that we need for faith and practice in the Holy Word of God. The works of man, are just that, and they are consigned to destruction along with those who have promoted them. Let us be careful to be men and women of the Word of God, and not misled by the many deceitful workers who are eager for a following, and desire earthly acclaim and fortune more than the glorious salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, revealed to us in the Bible, that guarantees us a home in heaven for all eternity. Amen!

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        • Eliza says:

          He impugns the work of the Holy Spirit in teaching us His Word. The Bible’s source is not the mind of man it is the heart of God, and therefore, God Himself is the One Who must teach His Word to us. To presume to know the Word of God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit is deceitful arrogance, and we can well see why MacArthur falsely teaches God’s Holy Word. Every one of us should tremble at God’s Holy Word and fear lest we understand it or teach it incorrectly. We must all rely upon God the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth to teach us and lead us each and every day. Everyone who has known the Lord Jesus Christ as recorded throughout the Scriptures has experienced His divine guidance and knew it, why should we expect anything less, if the Bible is the Word of God and our infallible guide for faith and practice?

          1 Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool. Where is the house that you will build Me? And where is the place of My rest? 2 For all those things My hand has made, And all those things exist,” Says the Lord. “But on this one I will look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word. 3 He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol. Just as they have chosen their ways, And their soul delights in their abominations, 4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear: But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight. 5 Hear the word of the Lord, You who tremble at His word: “Your brethren who hated you, Who cast you out for My name’s sake, said, ‘Let the Lord be glorified, That we may see your joy.’ But they shall be ashamed.” Isaiah 66:1-5

          16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the Lord listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the Lord And who meditate on His name. Malachi 3:16

          We must never presume to excuse those whom the Lord Jesus Christ does not excuse, and throughout the Holy Word of God those who prophesy or teach error in His name are named false prophets and false teachers and so should be warned against and avoided by those who know and love our Lord Jesus Christ. We are doing our solemn and God-given duty by reporting on, exposing and warning against this false teacher, John MacArthur. Amen!

          Liked by 1 person

    • Eliza says:

      It was a message preached on Luke 13:33-35. which he applied to the US. In retrospect that was a completely inappropriate use of this verse as it applied/applies only to the nation of Israel because they rejected Him, Jesus Christ, their Messiah. We are in the age of grace and have the opportunity to preach the gospel to all and see God’s work in the lives of any and all who will repent and believe the gospel of our glorious Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So the verse out of Galatians was especially sweet to my heart and soul. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Sherry says:

    Wow. {shaking my head} Wow…

    I’m so very thankful that the Holy Spirit teaches me God’s Word.

    Liked by 3 people

  3. unworthy1 says:

    Anyone who defends MacArthur shows little to no discernment, which is sorely lacking in multitudes today, and compromise is widespread.

    I read a sermon by MacArthur concerning 1 John 1:9, ‘if we confess our sins’… He stated that verse was NOT for believers! I did a post on it and have references and sources in that post – http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2014/02/1-john-19-isnt-for-believers.html.

    As Sherry stated, I am so very thankful the Holy Spirit teaches me truth!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Eliza says:

      Amen! So about that verse, he wrests it out of its context and then twists it. That verse applies to believer and unbeliever alike given the context.

      9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 My little children, these things I write to you. so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the world world. 1 John 1:9-2:2

      Praise God for His Son Jesus Christ who cleanses us from all unrighteousness because He is our propitiation. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

  4. gracealone1 says:

    @ 41:08 The epitome of narcissism. I’ve heard it said that if you ‘give a man enough rope he will hang himself’ and here we have it in JM’s own words that he teaches himself and the Holy Spirit comes in second with regard to “illumination” (a favorite word of masons, wonder why he uses it?). But the Scriptures teach the precise opposite of JM’s words in Luke 24:32. JM’s version might read something like: “Did not my heart burn within me as I read and understood the Word with my own understanding?” The verse says nothing of the sort, nor is there a hint of one being self-taught as the braggart MacArthur says of himself. Again, this verse (Luke 24:45): “And He opened their understanding, THAT THEY MIGHT COMPREHEND THE SCRIPTURES.” What a stark contrast!

    By JM’s own words we now know that he IS NOT TAUGHT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, but by his own intellect. Then he has the gall to say that his teachings are from God, whether by inference, innuendo, or directly. “Well the Holy Spirit never illuminates anything to me that I don’t understand.” Wow! Who knew?!?! John MacArthur has just placed himself as the third member of the Trinity by overriding the Holy Spirit’s authority and duties (John 16:13) when he says that he understands anything concerning God, the Word, and the Gospel APART from and WITHOUT the Holy Spirit showing it to him. Has he just elevated himself to being a god? Look at Isaiah 14 and find anything different about MacArthur and the wicked one—-I find nothing different.

    JM is one of the most sophisticated ‘angels of light’ on earth today. It is only fitting that his narcissism be over-the-top also. Some of his statements have come dangerously close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit (mark of the beast, and the above posted video @ 41:08 onward).

    Darrel

    Liked by 3 people

    • Eliza says:

      Amen! And notice how he enumerates the precious doctrines of our salvation with blah, blah, blah. What arrogant blasphemy and unbelief. He and those with him really despise the work of the Holy Spirit. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Thank you, Eliza – this is helpful!

    Liked by 1 person

  6. gracealone1 says:

    Bob, concerning JM and his ‘accusers’ how is it accusing someone of something when all the “accuser” does is quote the “accused”? Sounds like you are grasping at straws to find something to exonerate this man (JM) who has for decades taught false doctrine on multiple levels just because he is a “recognized elder in the church”. His words and intentions become “intentional” when JM is confronted with his (multiple) errors and instead of repenting he continues in the same vein, and worse, adding more to the ledger on the heretical side. IF he were a “man of God” (which he IS NOT) he would have repented long ago—-remember Jonah? Jonah’s sin was simply a refusal to obey God and look what happened to him. His rebellion was short lived, he repented and obeyed. MacArthur has NEVER repented (despite his dubious “retraction” for public consumption on the issue of Jesus being the eternal Son of God) of any of his teaching heresies (there are more than have been discussed here) and still he is a “recognized elder in the church” to which I would ask “recognized by whom?” JM’s own faithful followers? When clear evidence is presented to refute a man’s good standing in the ‘church’ because of heretical teaching it is incumbent on the examiner of that evidence to verify it and act accordingly. It is also quite the “tell” for someone to know the truth of a matter and reject it because it involves his favorite “preacher” which thousands have done concerning JM. I’m glad to see you in “Berean mode” with this. There has been ample discussion, links, etc. to know the truth about JM. Yet there are many sites on the web not linked here that would takes days to read. It is an age old ploy of the wicked one to shift blame away from the guilty by any means necessary. For this present case it seems that accusing JM’s ‘accusers’ of trying to know his heart fully (as God knows him) is a great ‘sidetrack’ that lead away from the real problem: we have an hireling in our midst and it’s time to expose him. Don’t get sucked down that vortex, Bob. Trying to help here, not attack.

    Darrel

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Eliza and brothers and sisters, because of these posts, I’m continuing to research John MacArthur. There is a lot out there, from his church’s involvement in church growth and purpose-driven movements, to his family’s history in Scottish Freemasonry. If anyone wants to vett the Freemasonry issue, here is a link to an article I’m currently reading.
    May the Lord correct me if this is wrong but I don’t believe this can be wrong.
    http://watch.pair.com/macarthur-6-freemasonry.html

    Liked by 3 people

  8. unworthy1 says:

    In spite of ample proof, direct quotes, links, etc., Bob has this to say, “And the accusation implies that the accuser knows for a fact that MacArthur is consciously and deliberately misleading the public, which is a very, very serious accusation to bring against someone who is a recognized elder in the church (I Tim. 5:19).” So, MacArthur is untouchable because he is an ‘elder’? Hardly. For starters, the Apostle Paul was referring to true elders, actually called by God and gifted to serve the Lord and His church. JMac gives little evidence he qualifies as a biblical elder, so that argument is null and void. Rather than examine the evidence and investigate, as Maria has done, Bob continues to defend JMac and ignore all that has been presented, which sends up red flags. This is a sign of ‘celebrity idolatry’, when a well known professing pastor is exposed and his fans continue to defend him. Discernment truly is a gift given by God to those He calls and gifts with eternal life.

    Maria, I commend you and praise the Lord you are doing what is necessary…you are investigating the matter for yourself and allowing the Lord to show you truth concerning JMac. Many are duped by his high profile status and refuse to acknowledge that he is fallible, and he is teaching falsely. Darrel has presented much information concerning this matter as well, and he’s presented evidence to back his claim, as have both Eliza and myself. So, those who continue to defend JMac are without excuse.

    Lyn

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Bob Wheeler says:

    Eliza, as you yourself pointed out, both John MacArthur and Phil Johnson have acknowledged that C.S. Lewis was in error theologically — I doubt that they ever said otherwise. And aside fromt that, what is MacArthur’s great crime? He has advanced some positions in the past and has since retracted them, sold some books in his bookstore of questionable orthodoxy, and called Albert Mohler his “friend.” Poor judgment, yes. Not always right on every issue, certainly. But it is one thing to point out someone’s errors; but it is an entirely different matter to call him “a deceitful worker” who is “purposefully misleading people.” That suggest that he is an out and out liar, that he is consciously and deliberately saying things that he himself knows to be false. Do you really know that for a fact?
    You ask the question, “How much false teaching do we get to believe and teach before we are called a false teacher?” By your definition, everyone, yourself included, is a false teacher, because no one has a perfect understanding of scripture, and everyone is undoubtedly wrong on some point or other. There has never been a teacher completely free from error of some sort since the last apostle died, because none of us is divinely inspired and all of us are finite in our understanding.
    We have to accept the fact that down through the centuries there have been many godly men, perfectly sincere in their faith, who have earnestly studied the Scriptures and arrived at different conclusions about what they teach. There are Lutheran and Reformed, Calvinist and Arminian, Prmillennial and Amillennial, yourself and myself. Are we all “false teachers,” or even worse, “deceitful workers” who “purposefully mislead people”?
    Obviously we should not tolerate any departure from the cardinal doctrines that are central to the gospel. I should hope that in that sense each and everyone of us is a “Fundamentalist.” Theological Liberalism is a rejection of Christianity itself, period. And ideally there should be unity among the brethren, but we obviously haven’t reached that goal yet. In the meantime we need to be patient with one another, search the scriptures diligently, and be humble enough to acknowledge that we could very well turn out to be the ones who were wrong on certain issues.

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    • Eliza says:

      Supporting those who fight against Christ proves they are deceitful workers. Supporting false doctrines proves they are false teachers. You just want us to accept as genuine those who are false which is a deceitful tactic. What else can be said? That sums it up really well.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Bob Wheeler says:

        No, I don’t want you to accept anything as genuine which is false. But calling someone “deceitful” is calling him a liar. There is a difference between being mistaken and being deceitful. I have seen no reason to believe that MacArthur doesn’t sincerely believe what he says. Absent any proof to the contrary, to call him “deceitful” is nothing less than base slander and character assassination.

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        • unworthy1 says:

          ” I have seen no reason to believe that MacArthur doesn’t sincerely believe what he says. Absent any proof to the contrary, to call him “deceitful” is nothing less than base slander and character assassination.” This is a pitiful defense of JMac’s false teachings! I bet he does believe what he says!! Satan believes his own words as well, so what is your actual point with such a silly statement? Those who are deluded actually DO believe what they say, that’s why they succumb to delusion – they refuse to believe truth.

          To expose JMac’s false teachings is NOT slander, nor is it character accusations. He knows full well what he is doing when he says things like you can take the mark. Satan wants people to believe it’s okay to do so, then they will perish in their sins, all the while believing they could take that mark because some celebrity pastor said so. Souls perish under false teaching, so where do you draw the line Bob? Why not embrace Roman Catholicism, after all, they get SOME things right some of the time right? Your logic leads to this very type of reasoning. You yourself seem to be on the very same dangerous ground JMac is on. Where does it state in the Bible that we are we to defend false teachers? Even if they teach falsely only one time, where does it state that is okay, cut them some slack, etc?
          What do you call it when a so-called self-proclaimed ‘elder’ tells multitudes of professing Christians you can take the mark and still be saved? You call it deception, and that’s exactly what Christ called it – “Take heed NO MAN DECEIVE YOU” Matthew 24:4.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Eliza says:

          I gave the proof. He knowingly has said that C. S. Lewis is a Christian even though Lewis held damnable doctrine. What you are saying is that it doesn’t matter what we believe, which is what MacArthur and Johnson are supporting. You can’t tell me that these men who are steeped in the doctrines of the church and profess to rightly divide the Word of truth are not knowingly presenting Lewis as a believer when he isn’t. Then on the other hand, if they are doing it unknowingly, they do not deserve our support because they are easily deceived and also lead others astray. What was that verse? Oh yes,

          13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

          We better run from these false teachers. Amen!

          Like

        • Bob, a man who is in a position of influence who gets something so basic as the relationship of the Father and the Son so wrong as to say in contradiction to the testimony of God’s Word that Christ became the Father’s Son in the Incarnation lacks an aptness to teach – he needed to repent, remove all publications in which his egregious error appeared, and step down, not say he has changed his view and come to understand. Can’t you see this? Sincerity isn’t the issue but qualification for ministry. He has not removed his publications to my knowledge. And there is more, as your brothers and sisters have demonstrated.

          Liked by 1 person

        • gracealone1 says:

          JM takes both sides of a doctrine depending on the audience (it’s in the links, did you find it yet). That is the definition of being a LIAR. To side with a man who purposefully teaches error, attempting to defend that man is slander against the Lord Jesus because it says that the Lord “approves” of the erroneous teaching. All this makes Bob Wheeler complicit with the false prophet, John MacArthur, and against the Lord Jesus Christ Matt 12:30. We’ve tried to help you, Bob, but you would rather exonerate false teachers and prove yourself to be right. Dangerous ground. Matt. 12:31 immediately follows Matt. 12:30 with the full intent of the Holy Spirit. Hope you can figure it out before it’s too late.

          Liked by 1 person

    • gracealone1 says:

      How wonderful a sentiment this is, Bob. And how wonderfully WRONG. There you go again, finding any reason you can to excuse the errors of JM and others like him. You make yourself sound so above the fray, even pious in your own religious world, but you just can’t see how wrong all your thinking really is. No where in Scripture is there even a hint of this nonsense you say about ‘sincere’ men arriving at diametrically opposed interpretations of the Scriptures with both of these men being lead there by the Holy Spirit. Don’t you understand that to say such a thing that you are actually calling the Holy Spirit a liar because He supposedly taught one man one doctrine and another man an entirely different doctrine from the same Scriptures? Obviously you do not understand. [While we are at it, can you prove that EVERY man since the Apostles taught some form of error at one time or another? Please enlighten us all!] You said “Obviously we should not tolerate any departure from the cardinal doctrines that are central to the gospel.” What “cardinal doctrines might that be? Are there ‘secondary’ and ‘tertiary’ doctrines that we can “agree to disagree” on? If so, what are they and who told you they were secondary or third tier doctrines—sort of to be believed or not believed as we may choose. Will you instruct the Holy Spirit on this matter? Others have tried to do so, John MacArthur being one of them and left the “issue” unresolved when he could not name the so-called primary doctrines. ALL doctrines found in the Scriptures are ‘primary’ to the Holy Spirit, will you be so bold as to argue the point with Him?
      Here we go again, more “unity”. The “unity” you seek will never be achieved and thank God it won’t because we would be unified with the demons of every flavor of “Christianity” known to man. The good news is that real UNITY has already been accomplished and we realize it at regeneration—Eph. 4:3-6 “endeavoring to KEEP the unity of the Spirit…” There is nothing about achieving it only keeping it.

      MacArthur has nearly 50 years of rancid fruit to show for all his efforts and now you believe the age old lie of “chew the meat and throw out the bones”. It’s sad that you have never ingested the Old Testament stories about Israel and how they thought they could disobey God and skate by. But they ended up serving the same idols of the people they were supposed to eradicate from the earth. Same thing is happening to you, Bob. Christians are supposed to be separate from the world and especially false prophets, teachers, etc. but here you are embracing one of the worst of our time and see nothing wrong with him or what you are doing. Sad indeed!

      Liked by 2 people

  10. gracealone1 says:

    Bob, second thoughts on your previous comment (offered as food for thought and not an attack). To say that we cannot know a man’s intentions is ludicrous, his every action is born from intent. By allowing this to stand you’ve granted JM “victim status” and have released him from any accountability (something which God never does unless a man repents and believes the Gospel). Yet this man-JM-has been a “pastor” for nearly 50 years. He is head of a “Christian college” and a “Christian seminary”, author of many books including a “study bible” and claims to have preached through the Bible verse by verse. Was all this done by some accident without intent? If that is allowed (by “accident”), it truly is ludicrous. On the contrary, all that he has done, said, written, etc. was done WITH intent and it is not necessary for us to be able to see inside his “heart” as the excuse is rendered, nor do I wish to. Seeing nearly 50 years of rancid fruit is quite enough. A man with such a vast reservoir of knowledge in the Word SHOULD know when he teaches error, or at least repent of it when he is confronted. But John MacArthur DOES NOT. Rather, he continues on in his infallible mode, impervious to inspection and resorts to character assassination of those who oppose him (link at the end). I’m leaving two more links for all to view. The first gives a history of JM’s errors, false teachings and heresies. On this link you will find the names of dozens of similar false prophets all listed alphabetically.

    http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/

    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/index/html

    The second link gives further and perhaps overlapping info on JM but also includes a “forum” were you will find accounts of the ill-treatment given students who ‘do not comply’ at the M’s college and/or seminary along with detailed accounts of what goes on every summer at JM’s Camp Regen which is nothing more than a pagan/occultic celebration. All of which is done “in the name of Christ”. All of which is done with INTENT. So no, JM will get no pass from me, not until he repents of ALL that he has perpetrated on the Church of the Living God.

    Darrel

    Liked by 1 person

  11. unworthy1 says:

    “It is because so many untaught men, unregenerate men, now occupy the pulpits that “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6) is being so widely and generally disseminated. Multitudes who have neither “tasted that the Lord is gracious” nor have “the fear of the Lord” in them have, from various motives and considerations, invaded the sacred calling of the ministry, and out of the abundance of their corrupt hearts they speak. Being blind themselves, they lead the blind into the ditch. Having no love for the Shepherd they have none for the sheep, being but “hirelings.” They are themselves “of the world” and therefore “the world heareth them” (1 John 4:5), for they preach that which is acceptable unto fallen human nature, and as like attracts like, they gather around themselves a company of admirers who flatter and support them. They will bring in just enough of God’s Truth to deceive the unwary and give the appearance of orthodoxy to their message, but not sufficient of the Truth, especially the searching portions thereof, to render their hearers uncomfortable by destroying their false peace. They will name Christ but not preach Him, mention the Gospel but not expound it.” A. W. Pink – http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Miscellaneous/preaching_false_and_true.htm

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Eliza, I’ve read at the following website about small groups in MacArthur’s Grace Community Church. These have nothing to do with Bible study and fellowship but with”group think.” Here is a link to a larger piece called “John Macarthur’s Transformational, Church Growth, Purpose-Driven Church”.

    http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur-s-Church-Transformation–Title.html

    Thank you! Perhaps this will be useful. I’m grateful. The odd thing is that I never was drawn to MacArthur’s preaching. We have the Lord’s promise that His sheep hear His voice, that they will not follow the voice of a stranger.

    God bless us, His children! No boasting, it His doing alone!
    .

    Liked by 1 person

    • Eliza says:

      Maria,
      Thank you for the link. They did the same thing at a church that we attended years ago, following the example of GCC. The leadership of those small groups didn’t really like me too much, because I always referred to the Scriptures and I always closed my prayers with this, “Thank you Lord Jesus Christ that You are my Lord and Savior Who died upon the cross for my sins and rose again from the dead for my justification”. I don’t ever remember hearing a hearty amen after I prayed that. On one particular occasion, there was great dissension about the necessity of doctrine because it is so divisive. However, we remember what Jesus said, that He didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword. Yes, the truth does separate between the true and the false. I praise God for His work in our hearts leading us into all truth through His Holy Spirit and His glorious Word the Bible because we are His children through faith in His glorious Son Jesus Christ. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

  13. Eliza, Bob rightly called me out on the accusations against Calvin and the Biblical doctrine of election associated with Calvin’s name that are found at the link given in my comment on February 20, 2016 at 6:01 pm. Where is his comment and my two replies to him? Are they in your spam file? This concerns me.

    Like

    • Eliza says:

      Hi Maria,
      They were not apropos to the discussion at hand (see commenting rules). We are not addressing Calvin. I am well aware of what this individual had to say about Calvin, since I have read his blog before and chose not to link to it because of some of the things that he said. This post is about the error and heresy of MacArthur. The information that he gives about MacArthur is important since it speaks to MacArthur’s error and also the source of much of the error we see being propagated within the visible church. The link gives the why. The dialectic process is being used by the church growth movement of Rick Warren and Bill Hybels to spread the end time apostasy of Peter Drucker to undermine the faith of church members for the establishment of the end time whore church system. It is very troubling that GCC has used these same techniques, and I am particularly concerned since both Warren and MacArthur have so much influence amongst pastors. My initial post, Church Anyone?

      https://holdingforthhisword.wordpress.com/2016/02/12/church-anyone/

      spoke to my concern over the friendship of John MacArthur with Al Mohler, knowing how very ecumenical the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is. Here is more information from the same site about Al Mohler. Although I don’t agree with Bob Johnson in everything that he says and writes about, this link gives accurate information about Al Mohler and why we should be so concerned. May Christ keep us from error and deceit. Amen!

      http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/Transformation-of-JM-Church-Mohler-Dever.html

      Liked by 1 person

      • Eliza, I understand – thank you!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Bob Wheeler says:

        So you can have a link to a website by a rank Arminian, but blast MacArthur for being friends with Mohler who has connections with an NGO that is affiliate with the UN? Aren’t you guilty of the very thing for which you criticize MacArthur? Doesn’t that make you a false teacher who is engaged in “crafty deceit”?

        Like

        • Eliza says:

          Hi Bob,
          Bob Johnson has gone where few dare to go in exposing the hypocrisy of a highly esteemed false teacher who promotes other false teachers and calls friends those who embrace ecumenism. MacArthur calls Lewis, a false teacher, a Christian, which he should know better than to do that, so he is without excuse, and although JM says he loves the gospel and Jesus Christ, he calls those who reject the gospel through their endorsement of false brethren his friends. JM has a great deal of influence within the visible church and it isn’t very difficult for him to lead many down the same deceptive path that he has been taking all of these years. That should cause you much greater concern than the very limited influence of Bob Johnson.

          It is so sad that you are willing to fight so hard for a false teacher, however, when someone has the audacity to disagree with your Calvinistic theology you are so quick to call that person a false teacher. Isn’t that hypocrisy? You should instead be alarmed that JM champions those who are on the forefront of corrupting the church. Lewis denied the inspiration, infallibility, inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures. Why doesn’t that concern you, since there is such a low view of the Scriptures within evangelicalism these days? Why doesn’t it concern you that JM and Phil Johnson call Lewis a believer when Lewis believed and taught contrary to the doctrines from the Bible about Jesus Christ and the Word of God, preferring his own opinions instead. Now, following his lead, and believing that Lewis is safe because of the adoration that Reformed darlings like Sproul, Piper, MacArthur, Johnson, et al. have afforded him, biblical illiteracy is at an all time high among church attenders. They prefer the works of fallen men thanks to the leading of their leaders.

          You should be alarmed that the leaders of the largest Protestant denomination, the SBC, are promoting ecumenism, liberalism, and allowing the use of the Hegelian dialectic teaching to transform the church from being based upon the Bible to being based upon the opinions of man. You should be alarmed that JM calls Al Mohler his friend because he is behind the ERLC which is very liberal and is promoting the liberal agenda, leading many down that wicked path. You should be alarmed that Al Mohler has no biblical discernment and teaches contrary to God’s Word.

          I find your outrage disingenuous and say that you should instead spend your time contending for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints so that you can then be doing the work of God rather than the work of the flesh. You should seek to please God rather than pleasing man.

          Like

          • Bob Wheeler says:

            No. MacArthur’s theology is basically sound, and he is an expository preacher — he has devoted his ministry to expounding God’s Word. No one is biblically illiterate because of ministries like MacArthur’s. His only fault is occasionally exercising poor judgement in commending authors and speakers like Mohler (whose own theology is basically sound),and Lewis (who admittedly has serious problems). That doesn’t merit calling MacArthur a “false teacher.” Bob Johnson, on the other hand, does have a theology which twists and distorts what the Bible says on several major doctrines. And if his treatment of MacArthur is anything at all like his treatment of Calvin, nothing he says about either can be trusted. He has an axe to grind and isn’t really interested in what is the truth. He’s the false teacher, not MacArthur or Mohler.

            Like

          • Eliza says:

            They are biblically illiterate because of the authors that he commends to them by saying they are Christian and/or not warning against them.
            No, he has taught false teaching and has supported others who are very questionable along with other error.

            http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/macarthur/

            I do not commend Bob Johnson to anyone,but he documents what he has to say about MacArthur. He was concerned about the false teaching of others. SBC is the largest purveyor of wickedness in this nation, and Al Mohler is president of their flagship seminary. He doesn’t warn against Warren, who is spreading false teaching, and yet MacArthur calls Mohler his friend. There is much to be concerned about regarding what it going on within the visible church and the leadership within the church.

            Liked by 2 people

  14. Bob Wheeler says:

    And most of Bob Johnson’s argument against MacArthur is guilt by association by association by association. Phil Johnson was correct in dismissing it as 4th and 5th degree separation.

    Like

    • Eliza says:

      You fail to grasp the magnitude of the error when these men recommend, promote and testify that Lewis is a Christian, he held and taught false teaching, and so many will read his works and be led astray. That doesn’t bother you? It should.
      Both MacArthur and Johnson have taught false teaching, contradicting God’s Word regarding the mark of the beast, the blood of Jesus Christ, and the truth of the Word of God by recognizing Lewis as a Christian, as well as other error. Sorry you cannot exonerate these men who have had negative impact on the body of Christ.

      Liked by 2 people

  15. gracealone1 says:

    Bob,
    If MacArthur is so Biblically sound why does he say things like this? [The following quotes are from the mouth of John MacArthur, not from someone trying to make JM look bad-JM needs no help to make himself look bad].
    “The blood of Christ is precious-but as precious as it is, His physical blood could not save.” The Scripture says: “Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things like silver and gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” 1 Peter 1:18 &19. So who is teaching correctly?
    “There is nothing in the fluid in His body that in any way in itself could save us.” Contrast that with the Word: “…and without shedding of blood there is no remission.” Heb. 9:22. And “For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” Heb. 9:13 & 14. Who is correct and is teaching falsely? See also Rom. 3: 24 & 25; Eph. 1:7 and Eph. 2:12; Col. 1:14 and Col. 1:20; Rev. 7:14; Acts 20:28.
    MacArthur has labeled himself a false teacher with this statement coupled with his own “testimony” found on GTY tape # 80-33: “If someone never admits to being a sinner, salvation cannot result.” On the referenced tape he says that he “never rebelled” was “always a believer” as if he oozed into the Kingdom of God by some mystical osmosis. The tenor of his “testimony” is that he came by salvation through his lineage or salvation by heredity. Both of which are contrary to John 1:13. [the above quote can be found in JM’s “study bible” @ 1John 1:8, page 1934 of the NKJV. Also from the same “testimony we hear this: “And so when God did His saving work in my heart, it was not discernible to me.” Wow! Who knew? A man can meet God, have all his sins forgiven, become indwelt by God Himself via the Holy Spirit and not know it. Think Job, Isaiah, Paul, and even yourself to know the truth of JM’s statement.
    The “Calvinist John MacArthur” has stated: “I believe in volition (free-will). I believe anybody who wants to any time, can come to Jesus Christ and receive Him as Savior.” GTY tape # 45-73. But the Scriptures say otherwise, John 6:44, Acts 13:48, John 1:13 and about two hundred more dispute this fantasy theology of the “non-Calvinists”. In GTY # 50-21 JM says: “The God of the Bible is not a God who makes demands on impotent people who are unable to comply and then crush them because of their non-compliance.” Here we have men being able of their own accord coming to Christ as they wish which is totally contrary to Scripture. Rom. 3:10-18 covers this fallacy well along with a few dozen more verses. Tape # 1514 “I believe in an unlimited atonement.” Thank you, JM, for such profundity, since you said it, it must be so. But what do the Scriptures say? Acts 13:48, John 1:13, James 1:18, Eph.1:3-6, Eph.2:1-10, etc.

    There is so much more evil falling from this man’s mouth and yet you, Bob, and countless thousands like you prefer to worship your idol, John MacArthur, and his co-hearts. Worship away! How many people has he lead astray from the Word with false doctrines and double minded rhetoric? How many people has he made to stumble with his ever changing doctrines, sinking further and further from the truth of Scripture? Mark 9:42. It is always such a huge “tell” when anyone goes to great lengths to defend a man or woman in their apostasy/heresy. Instead of defending the faith once for all delivered to the saints, they will defend their golden boy infallible preacher choosing rather to believe the lies they spout rather than the Word of God. Those who defend a heretic are just like the one they defend and are even two-fold more a child of hell that their teacher (Matt. 23:15). The Lord is the only One who can break this cycle and I pray that He will intervene on your behalf—-Eph.2:1-10.

    The errors of JM on only two accounts are enough to dismiss all that he says as false, taking the mark of the beast and later can be “saved” and his denial of the efficacy of the blood of Christ. IMO both qualify as ‘blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which, if so, means MacArthur never was saved, nor can ne ever be saved-Luke 12:8-10. Rev. 14: 9-11 is clear that only damnation awaits those who have received the mark of the beast (also Rev. 19:20 and Rev. 20:4). To make MacArthur’s fantasy “fit”, these verses must be altered or ignored. Heb. 10:29 tells of the consequences of trampling underfoot the blood of the covenant and insulting the Spirit of grace. To make the statements JM has made concerning the blood of Christ (there are more than those referenced above) is an insult to the Holy Spirit as well as to Christ because Christ offered Himself “through the eternal Spirit” Heb. 9:14. My conclusion was not in haste, but a process of some two years. IF it be correct, then JM’s fate is sealed and that from long ago-Jude 1:4-19 and 2 Peter 2:1-22.

    Darrel

    Liked by 3 people

  16. Eliza, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate what you’ve done in helping me – you and Darrel and Lyn – to see that MacArthur is false. He has no grasp of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, makes unBiblical statements, has sway over many, and is very dangerous because he appears to be Biblical but isn’t.

    Here is a link to an article that helped me. It is reviews of two of his books about the Gospel on the same webpage. It is long but worth it. Having been in the Christian publishing world for a few years, and written a novel, I knew there had to be something wrong with the claim that he, a full time preacher and seminary exec, had written 400 books. I’ve learned, as you probably know, that he does have a ghost writer (Phil Johnson), and I don’t know if this compounds the problems in his writings, but be that as it may, he is still responsible for what is out there; and when he retracts something he must be responsible to retract it in every place where it was published – which he hasn’t done. What a huge mess, Eliza, Darrel, and Lyn. I really am grateful because vetting him led me to the place where his false Gospel was set forth, and anything that helps us stay clear on the Gospel is essential:

    http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=193

    I feel good about this article because it can be downloaded for free and broadcast with copyright and the Foundation’s address on other websites, and I hope to do this, God willing.

    Thank you for all your work!

    In Jesus’ love,

    Maria

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Bob Wheeler says:

    If the quotes contained in the Trinity Foundation article are all accurate, then I would have to say that both MacArthur and Robbins are heretics. MacArthur, because he rejects the historic Protestant view of justification by an imputed righteousness. Robbins, because he rejects the historic Protestant view of saving faith as made up of Notitiia, Assensus, and Fiducia. MacArthur holds to the Roman Catholic view of justification. Robbins holds to the Roman Catholic view of faith.

    Like

    • Eliza says:

      I will have to check out what you have to say. The vital question isn’t answered by councils, but by the Word of God, Do they believe what the Bible says about faith and righteousness? We must all be held to that infallible, inerrant, unchanging standard rightly divided. Amen!

      Like

      • Bob Wheeler says:

        I hope you noticed that MacArthur quoted the Bible, while Robbins quoted the Westminster Confession of Faith. And that is precisely why MacArthur sometimes gets himself into controversy — he will sometimes come up with a debatable interpretation of a passage, whereas for some Presbyterians a Quote from the Confession ends the discussion.. The Westminster Divines, on the other hand, sincerely thought that they were following Scripture too, and since there were more of them they were more likely to be closer to the truth than a “lone ranger” like MacArthur. And yet they were wrong on infant baptism and MacArthur got it right on that issue.

        Liked by 1 person

  18. gracealone1 says:

    Bob,
    It seems that you won’t even take the words of John MacArthur for what they are. The man has “hung himself” by his own words multiple times over four plus decades and yet you, in your own wisdom, still try to defend a man who is the enemy of the Lord Jesus (whom you claim to love and serve). In the age-old ploy of the wicked one, now you seek to shift blame away from where it belong (on JM) transferring it to John Robbins (no, I’m not defending JR, just pointing out another of your errors). Next, you proceed to add further confusion (who is the author of confusion?) to this thread when you use the words “Notitiia”, “Assensus”, and “Fiducia” with no definition, explanation, or relevance to the discussion at hand. Are we all just supposed to know what you meant and accept it because Bob Wheeler said it? Seems so. Some of the people who read this thread have not had the level of “education” you seek to flaunt before with use of these words, but it makes you SEEM to be intelligent and even superior to others, was that your intent? And since you want us to believe that you are big on quoting Scriptures, where are they for this cute trick? Isn’t Heb. 11:1 good enough for you? Or must you defer to some “historic Protestant view” to make your “point”?

    By the way, people are not deemed “heretics” because they reject “the historic Protestant view” of ANYTHING. They are deemed heretics because they have rejected the Word of God, and/or the Son of God, and/or the Spirit of God. Something that has yet to soak into your brain.

    Further, read Gal. 1:6-9 until you grasp the content of it, that the false gospel being preached is NOT the object of the curse spoken of in those verses. The object of the curse is the PREACHER of it: “…let HIM be accursed. Do you believe that ? Since you’ve already declared MacArthur ( and Robbins) to be heretics, WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND MACARTHUR? Shouldn’t you be about the business at hand and defend the FAITH? Why do you defend an enemy of the faith and the Lord Jesus Christ? Please tells us how your defense of man who is the enemy of Christ is pleasing to the Father. Don’t be rude—————-answer the questions.

    Darrel

    Liked by 2 people

    • Eliza says:

      Thank you Darrel. For Bob, a little heresy is tolerable within the heart and minds of those who are supposedly the leaders in the church, because a little heresy is tolerable in the church. He loves the “church” and her history. He doesn’t love the Lord Jesus Christ and His truth. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Eliza says:

      Here is an explanation for these words, notia, assensus and fiducia, they are Latin for understanding the Christian faith, assenting to the truth of the Christian faith, and being faithful to the truth of the Christian faith. Unfortunately, Bob is always quick to point to synods, councils, and conventions, rather than relying upon the Holy Spirit to teach us the Word of God. He neglects that Scripture in 1 John where the apostle John, an authority given to us by God through the Holy Spirit, teaches us that we have an anointing that we have received from God, which is the Holy Spirit, and we don’t have need that anyone teach us.

      But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. Whosoever denies the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abides in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that does righteousness is born of him. 1 John 2:20-29

      Our salvation through faith in Jesus Christ by believing in His death upon the cross for our sins and His resurrection from the dead for our justification is sufficient for us to know the truth because once we are His we receive the Holy Spirit Who leads us into all truth. The Holy Spirit has given us His Word the Bible and He is quite capable of leading us into knowing, believing and obeying the Bible without all the machinations of fallen man. We know the truth, Jesus Christ, because we have dwelling within us the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit, and we are well able to know, understand, believe and obey the Word of Truth, the Bible because of our relationship with the Father and with His Son. Bob would do well to remember this and stop trying to defend the indefensible which is any corruption of the Holy Scriptures whether by few or many. Remember Bob, the world is full of falsehood and there are many who follow its many different manifestations, even many within the visible church. May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ keep us ever true to Him. Amen!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Eliza, to be true to Jesus Christ and God’s Holy Word we need to remember this doctrine also:

        Ephesians 4:10-12
        10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

        The context of 1 John 2:20-29 is remaining in the doctrine of Christ (the Father and the Son), not about having no need to be taught. Otherwise, why would you attempt to teach here? Teachers are given by the Lord to build up His body in love. And we judge their doctrine and fruit to know if they are sound, such as you have been doing with C.S. Lewis and those who approve of his false teaching.

        Please don’t use the word machinations – this is abuse of men of God who served the Church though human and fallible. You seem to believe that you’ve gotten everything right simply because you affirm that the Word of God is inerrant, infallible – that is, utterly perfect. We can’t get everything right or there would be no need for teachers according to Paul in Ephesians. Exposing false teachers is necessary and good, but saying we don’t need anyone to teach us – taking this out of the context of belief in the Father and Son – is wrong.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Eliza says:

          Thank you for the rebuke Maria. I am referring to Bob’s continued reliance upon the decisions of councils to back up what he believes rather than the Word of God, that is why I said this. Also, so many are enamored with the teachers, whether heretical or not, within the visible church instead of having their thoughts held captive to the Word of God. Yes, God did give us teachers, but they have to be those who are given by God and not man driven.
          Yes, I believe the word machinations is appropriate, what other term would you use to represent the sad state of affairs of the visible church that has its lineage from the councils and decrees of fallen man?

          Liked by 1 person

          • Eliza, it’s true that councils and teachers of present and past shouldn’t be our focus but the Word of God. The late councils were hotbeds of heresy and machinations. However the early councils defended God’s Word, the Deity of Jesus Christ (on which MacArthur has erred and only partly retracted) and the Trinity. So I’m grateful to the Lord for His goodness and grace in the lives of true God-given teachers and love those defenders. We will worship with them when we meet the Lord in the air.

            1 John 5:1
            5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

            Liked by 1 person

    • Bob Wheeler says:

      I do not presume to teach Darrel anything, and therefore I will not weary him with any replies to his comments.

      Like

      • gracealone1 says:

        Way to go, Bob!!! It took you only seven minutes to totally refute your own words found in the comment you made @ 1:43 AM. And you claim to be a teacher? Where’s the Love, Bob? Where’s the unity you so dearly love to talk about and never do? You can’t even get the definition of English words correct and so you defer to Latin to show everyone how smart you are? Who knew??? Happy to oblige you with questions, that if you answered honestly, would destroy your self-made religious playhouse. Can’t you understand that every word you type is just more evidence against you, more proof of your own arrogance and self-sufficiency? No, I guess not. ’cause if you did see that, you would stop and humble yourself before the God you so stealthily mock.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Bob, why do you come here? Your defense of a man who denied the eternal Son of God and efficacy of the blood of Christ is unworthy.

        Liked by 1 person

  19. Bob Wheeler says:

    May I point out that MacArthur has done exactly what Eliza says he should do — ignore the teachings to the rest of the church, and assume that he alone understands what the Bible really teaches. And he has just as much a claim to be teaching biblical truth as does Eliza.
    Christ has commanded us (not suggested, but commanded) that we “all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (I Cor.1:10). And how do we accomplish this? By each pretending that he has a perfect understanding of Scripture, and has no need of being taught by others? By calling each other false teachers and heretics? By staying home because no church is pure enough for us? Or by joining together with our fellow believers, by praying and searching the Scriptures together, and through the leading of the Spirit arrive at some sort of consensus? What would Christ have us to do?
    I do not claim that the Synod of Dort or the Westminster Assembly of Divines were be any means perfect, but they were made up of far better Christians than myself and I think twice before I call them heretics and false teachers. Wisdom was not born with me, and I have to acknowledge that I just might happen to be the one who was wrong.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Eliza says:

      Has he really ignored the teachings of the rest of the church? I don’t think so. He has been heavily influenced by others. His false teaching about the Incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ comes from many within the visible church including the Freewill Baptists, Particular Baptists and some Plymouth Brethren. So your contention has no substance, he has been influenced by men within the church and that is the problem. He hasn’t stood fast for the truth of the Word of God.
      Again your major premise is indefensible because Peter makes it very clear in 2 Peter chapter 1 that there is one and only one interpretation of the Scriptures. Maybe the minds of men without the help of the Holy Spirit will come up with divergent interpretations, however, God’s children will be led into the truth by the Holy Spirit. It really is that simple. Tell us all Bob that assertion is a lie.
      I think the main problem is there is this desire to include unregenerate people in the roll call of God’s body. Well we will all find out now won’t we. May Christ keep us forever true to Him as He is well able to do. Amen!

      Liked by 2 people

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