The Rapture: Part Three

The attack upon the pre-tribulation rapture comes mostly from those who are enamored with the doctrines of men.  Some hold to Replacement theology, or follow the doctrines of Augustine, or are involved with the church growth movement, or believe they should establish the kingdom of God upon this earth, joining in with the Catholic Church which holds this false teaching.  What does the Bible say?  We can actually counter their so-called arguments from the words of Jesus Christ, with His Word found in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

27 “For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.  28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.  29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”  Matthew 24:27-31

26 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.  27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of the earth to the farthest part of heaven.  Mark 13:26-27

Jesus Christ comes in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory to execute judgment upon this fallen evil world of depraved sinners held captive by Satan’s lies and deceits.  The gathering of His elect is said to occur from one end of heaven to the other in this passage from Matthew, and from the farthest part of the earth to the farthest part of heaven in the passage from Mark.  This indicates that Jesus Christ will already have His elect in heaven with Him, those that He has raptured before the tribulation, and will gather the tribulation saints, believers saved through faith in Christ Jesus during the reign of Antichrist and the tribulation, from the earth at the same time.  This assures us that we will all be with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and not included with the sinners bound under in His judgment.

Finally, Jesus Christ taught about the rapture in Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 17.  There is a key phrase that is used in both of these passages that proves He is speaking about the rapture.  That phrase is given in Matthew 24:28 which says: “For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

This is an idiom of the day that comes right after Christ’s declaration that His return would be obvious and unmistakable.  I want to share the verses about the rapture from Matthew and Luke, and then the importance of this verse will be obvious.

38 “For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.  40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.  41 Two women will be grinding at the mill:  one will be taken and the other left.  42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.”  Matthew 24:38-42

34 “I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left.  35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left.  36 Two men will be in the field:  the one will be taken and the other left.”  37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”  Luke 17:34-37

Jesus Christ used the idiom both in reference to His return and the removal of believers out of the world to be gathered to Him.  In both cases the idiom indicates that it will be obvious He has returned, and it is obvious that believers will be taken to be with Him.  Believers removed while doing mundane tasks proves this is not during the tribulation period because that time will be characterized by catastrophic disruption.  Just as Noah was supernaturally protected from the flood, so shall God’s children be supernaturally protected from the tribulation wrath when Christ comes for His own before the wrath of God is poured out upon this world.

Finally right before the awesome return of the Lord Jesus Christ, when He comes to wreck His vengeance upon this wicked world, the marriage supper of the Lamb is given and His wife is made ready.  Who is His wife?  She is the elect saints who are in heaven with Him during the tribulation, kept safe from all the dire doom that destroys the earth and those who dwell on it.  These same saints accompany Him in His triumphant execution of the wrath of God upon those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Notice that it is a believer, an elect saint, whom God commands to give this portion of Revelation to John.  This portion of Revelation is all about Christ and His church which He has taken to be with Him before the tribulation.  Let us with great expectation and joy look for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ to take us to be with Him before the great and terrible day of God’s fierce anger when He has revenge on His enemies.  Let us not be discouraged by those who reject the truth of God’s Word that wrath is for sinners who reject Jesus Christ and His gospel and salvation is for saints who have believed the gospel that Jesus Christ died upon the cross so their sins can be forgiven and has risen from the dead displaying the efficacy of His finished work, His deity, and His right to give any and all who believe in Him eternal life and to save them from the wrath that is to come during the tribulation.  God bless us.

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!  7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”  8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.  9 Then he said to me, “Write:  ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’”  And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”  10 And I fell at his feet to worship him.  But he said to me, “See that you do not do that!  I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.  Worship God!  For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”  Revelation 19:6-10

14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.  Revelation 19:14

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43 Responses to The Rapture: Part Three

  1. gracealone1 says:

    A most excellent summary of Scriptures and commentary. Thank you.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Sherry says:

    I think if those who oppose the Pre-Trib Rapture would make a careful study of the ancient Jewish traditions of the betrothal and wedding ceremonies in comparison they might understand better the doctrine.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Eliza says:

      Thank you Sherry for sharing this comment. Could you maybe give us some insight? God bless us.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Sherry says:

        I can’t seem to find the study I read from on this but if you search for Ancient Jewish Wedding traditions and the Pre-Trib Rapture you will find all kinds of information. If I find that study I’ll buzz back and leave the link. I smile when I think of the mikvot-I never knew this! 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Bob Wheeler says:

    I just posted on my blog a response to your series on the Rapture. If not you are welcome to read it yourself, and by all means post a comment!

    Like

  4. lyn says:

    This is one of those topics that would be best to agree to disagree on. Rather than try to change Eliza’s mind or lure her to your blog to continue a pointless debate, wouldn’t it be better to part ways and leave this alone? Aren’t there more pressing issues currently taking place that warrant our attention and prayers? Issues like the rapid downward spiral of America into darkness and the need to pray for this and all nations, and to proclaim His truth to a world that is racing towards judgment: the rapidly increasing apostasy as the visible church continues to compromise by embracing sin and not trembling at God’s word should cause all of us to fall to our knees and cry out to God for His mercy.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Bob Wheeler says:

      Part of it is that Eliza has a tendency to brand anyone who disagrees with her as a false teacher, including on this topic. The other thing that concerns me are the very things you mentioned. Bear in mind that in just two weeks the U.S. Supreme Court is going to hand down a ruling which will in all likelihood legalize gay marriage throughout the US. That will make it very difficult for us to keep up the pretense that somehow the US is a “Christian country.” I think that during the next two years or so we’re going to see an intense debate in churches, denominations and institutions over the issue, and those who wish to remain faithful to Christ will return to the position of the First Century Christians — a persecuted minority. That will require a real adjustment to the thinking of a lot of Christians here in this country (actually, it will be good for the church, but difficult). And what happens if the Great Tribulation were to begin during our lifetime? What if it turns out that Eliza was wrong on this particular issue? What will we do then?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Alec says:

      Lyn, I couldn’t agree with you more. The church in America is in such poor shape – buffeted by false teachings, confused by wolves masquerading as pastors, and made up of Christians who don’t even read the Bible once per month. Eschatology is important – and interesting. But hopefully not something to divide us if we agree on the essential doctrines of the faith.

      For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13.12

      Having said all that, I’m looking forward to reading Bob’s response.
      Alec

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  5. Eliza says:

    There has only been one nation called by God to be His own, the nation of Israel, and they didn’t faithfully follow Him. This nation is Christian in name only, obviously. Yes, we have had a certain amount of religious freedom, but that doesn’t necessarily mean this nation is Christian. We have greater problems than the Supreme Court vote on gay marriage, the lack of integrity and faithfulness to God’s Word within the visible church. The continuing excursion into the promotion of godlessness and lawlessness in this nation is directly related to the “church” and its leadership turning their backs on the faithful preaching and teaching of God’s Word. Great despite has been perpetrated against God’s Holy Word by those who profess to know Him and we have been reaping that fruit in this nation for a long time. The church needs to repent and turn from its wicked ways of drawing near to God with their lips but having hearts that are far from Him.

    For genuine believers the blessed hope of the return of Christ for His people before the tribulation is a great comfort. As we see wickedness and apostasy on the rise we can be blessed by the knowledge that Jesus Christ is coming for us soon. God isn’t a man that He should lie, and He has revealed to us the times of the rapture and they are not centered in the tribulation. There are those who think this is an area where we can agree to disagree, but is that really the case? Didn’t God warn us through Paul that giving a time frame for the rapture that does not line up with His Word is deception? Are we to shrug at deception and smile and call the deceiver brother? That has been going on within the church for way too long and is a large part of why we are in the trouble we are in.

    Pray for repentance of the so-called “Christian” leadership of this nation that sees the homosexual marriage issue as a means of bringing about greater ecumenical cohesiveness between Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox and others paving the way for the end time apostate harlot church. Pray for repentance in the average “Christian’s” heart and mind that loves the praise of man and the titillation of man centered teaching more than the favor of Christ and the deep treasures of God’s Word. Pray for those who are truly Christ’s to stop giving quarter to the enemies of our faith and to start standing true to His Word and contending earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. We need a genuine move of God within our midst that will turn us from a assembly of thrill seekers to an assembly that seeks the face of Christ, has a great fear for Him and a burning indignation towards anything or anyone that impugns His holy goodness, love and fidelity and glorious gospel message found only in His Holy Word the Bible. God bless us.

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    • Alec says:

      Hi Eliza,
      Someone told me once how concerned he was about the shock it would be to Christians if the rapture did not take place before the tribulation. If this is a basis of our comfort as Christians, and we’re wrong, how much harder would it be to endure?
      The golden period for Christians in America was a great blessing, but alas atypical. The normal lot for Christians is being hated by the world, persecuted and not infrequently killed. Who said, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.
      Let’s strengthen each other and draw near to our Lord. Then, we’ll be comforted whatever the future holds.
      Glad to find your blog, Eliza. Am adding it to my RSS reader.
      Alec

      Liked by 1 person

  6. gracealone1 says:

    It seems that for some the upcoming Great Tribulation is little more than a “merit badge” to be earned and the ultimate confirmation of their “salvation”. They have convinced themselves that unless they suffer it’s horrors they are not worthy to be considered a “Christian”. In the same vein, all must al least enter into the GT or they are not real “Christians” and to want to escape the GT’s ravages is considered cowardly and conduct unbecoming a real child of God (in their eyes). Biblical support for this nonsense is never forthcoming because there is none. But still this message is parroted and the “truth trumpet” sounded all in an effort to intimidate those who oppose this idiocy and lay guilt at their feet for not succumbing to their overtures. This lie they perpetuate is the product of highly educated men, seminary graduates, pastors, teachers, conference circuit speakers and the like. It is given to the Church as “truth” but on all fronts it is a direct assault upon the Character and Veracity of the God. The lie is furthered by the ridicule of all who would question such “learned” men whose “years of service” have given them a lock on the truth to the point of infallibility. What is seldom realized (and never apart from the Holy Spirit revealing it) is that for weeks, months, years, decades those that sit in the pews and dutifully listen and “pay their tithe” have been given a spiritual roofie, a weekly dose of just enough tainted truth to keep them from really exploring the nonsense, along with what ever lie will fit that tainted truth. This is definitely not limited to the GT and the pre-trib Rapture.

    But the pew-sitter loves to have it just like this. Whereas the genuine Christian is never lead to believe the lies, rather to question everything as a good Berean. The real Christian is not afraid to humble himself before the God that saved him, to thirst for His righteousness, to seek for His wisdom, and to quickly and willingly lay aside the errors he previously believed when the truth of Scripture is opened to him like a budding flower and his Savior is glorified. It is the charlatan, the pretender, the fraud that clinches to his lies and tries to spread them.

    Some may think that the Church will not be persecuted until the GT and that is why they require her to endure it. But for those who currently live godly in Christ Jesus the reality of present persecution is all too real. Maybe not so much in the physical realm (subject to change without notice) here in the USA. Yet many have and are now suffering greatly at the hands of wicked men who parade about as emissaries for God through abuse of all sorts in the name of Christ. The varieties may be endless but I speak mainly of the spiritual abuse of “church leaders” in the form of lies told from the pulpit in the name of truth; the use of intimidation and guilt to achieve whatever nefarious agenda they have, the “Nicolaitan” style of church dictatorship that has exploded in the past years, and the demand for unquestioned allegiance as the ‘leaders’ elevate themselves to infallible status.

    All this and more plays into the “debate” concerning ‘to pre-trib rapture’ or not to pre-trib rapture’. Actually, there is no debate, it’s open rebellion or obedience to the Word and since the case for anything other than the pre-trib rapture cannot be made from the Word it is simple: Choose, obey or rebel

    Darrel

    Liked by 1 person

    • Bob Wheeler says:

      Read the book of I Peter.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Bob Wheeler says:

        You might also want to read II Thess. 1:3-5 and Rev. 14:9-13.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Eliza says:

          So after the rapture occurs before God pours out His wrath upon this wicked world, there is no opportunity for sinners to be saved, is that what you believe? Tell me why are the evangelists during God’s judgment upon this earth through the Antichrist and His poured out righteous supernatural fury not of the church but are from the tribes of Israel?

          Like

          • Bob Wheeler says:

            There are several different things going on in the Tribulation at the same time. First of all, it is a time of trial (Rev. 3:10). The wrath of God is poured out on mankind (Rev. 16:1), but at the same time the Antichrist persecutes the saints (Rev. 13:7). But the nations of the earth do not repent (Rev. 9:20,21), and do not respond positively to the message of the two witnesses (Rev. 11:10). In fact, if “he who restrains . . . and is taken away” (II Thess. 2:7) is the Holy Spirit, then it would be impossible for anyone to be saved during the Tribulation, because the Holy Spirit would not be there to convict. The final and complete wrath of God is not manifested until the wicked are punished in hell (Rev. 11:17,18).

            Like

          • Eliza says:

            There is nothing about what you have said that I can disagree with other than the assumption that the Holy Spirit must be removed from this earth is erroneous. The verse says “taken out of the way” so that He no longer restrains the coming to power of the Antichrist. God has His perfect timing.
            Quoting from Revelation 3:10 proves the pre-trib rapture because Christ says to His beloved believers that He will keep them from the hour of trial which will come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth. Thank you for making a very strong point for the pre-trib rapture.

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      • Eliza says:

        Persecution is not synonymous with the Great Tribulation.

        Like

      • Eliza says:

        Genuine believers have always been persecuted, read Jeremiah. Persecution is the enemy of our souls using his cohorts to come against God’s beloved children. If Christ suffered such treatment, how can we think that we will be saved from the same? However, the wrath of God is saved for sinners not His saints.

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        • lyn says:

          Eliza,

          My apologies for my prior comment which contained a link that some may find too offensive. In the future, I will not post such links in my comments.

          Like

          • Eliza says:

            Thank you for your apology Lyn, I appreciate it. Also you had already made your point in a previous comment so I did not see it necessary for you to comment about this again per the commenting rules and keeping on topic. God bless us.

            Like

    • Bob Wheeler says:

      You have it backwards. There is no mention of a Pre-trib rapture anywhere in Scripture. If it’s “obey or rebel” on this issue, you are the one in rebellion.

      Like

  7. Eliza says:

    Thank you Darrel. Amen! God bless us.

    Like

  8. Bob Wheeler says:

    Eliza, Rev. 3:10 is often used as a proof text for a Pretribulation Rapture, but it doesn’t really provide the necessary proof. I first began to question the idea of a Pretrib Rapture when I was in Bible College (Baptist Bible College of PA, now “Summit University”). In a class on Inductive Bible Study we were assigned Matthew 24. I couldn’t make heads or tails out of it — it looked like a confusing jumble. When we got together to discuss the passage a girl in the class said, “Dr. Launstein, this makes it sound like the rapture will take place after the tribulation.” My mouth dropped open — I never for a moment would have suspected such a thing. We all leaned forward in anticipation of what Dr. Launstein would say. What he said was, “I know it makes it sound that way, but I can prove to you from other passages of Scripture that the rapture will take place before the tribulation.” Then, one of the texts that he mentioned was Rev. 3:10. But I saw a problem right away. I had always been taught to believe that the seven letters to the churches represented different periods of church history. The problem is that the Church at Philidelphia didn’t represent the last period — that was the Church at Laodicea. So, of course, the Church at Philadelphia would not go through the tribulation — it wouldn’t even be around then. The question is, would the Church at Laodicea go through the tribulation?
    Since then I have concluded that the church history scheme of interpreting the seven letters is a little far-fetched. But I think that it is significant that in the letters to the other six churches there isn’t even the slightest hint of any of them escaping the tribulation, and in at least two of them (Smyrna and Thyatira), it is said that they will experience tribulation, at least in some partial or general way.

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    • Eliza says:

      I wanted to say that it is easy to conflate different prophetic events when they are revealed in the same passage. This happened to the disciples. They were expecting the conquering King not the suffering Savior. The fact that the tribulation and the rapture are revealed in the same passage does not mean the rapture takes place during the tribulation. Your professor did you a service by pointing you to other passages to demonstrate the rapture takes place before the tribulation. This is the method we must always use when interpreting Scripture, we let Scripture have the final say on Scripture. God bless us.

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    • Eliza says:

      One more thing, Jesus Christ graciously opened the disciples minds and revealed the Scriptures to them about Himself, His coming to die upon the cross so repentant sinners have their sins forgiven and His rising again from the dead for our salvation, because He is God the Son of God. Obviously, they had read it but they didn’t understand it. We always need the Lord Jesus Christ to reveal His Word, the entire Bible, to us. If we try on our own we are sure to make mistakes. God bless us.

      Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:25-27

      And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.
      Luke 24:40-48

      Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised before by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Romans 1:1-4

      Who are Israelites; to whom pertains the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Romans 9:4-5

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      • Bob Wheeler says:

        Well actually, the professor didn’t have any Scriptures that were convincing. What subsequently happened is that shortly afterwards I found myself in the Army. I decided that I would read the entire Bible through, cover to cover, and of course I was especially interested in finding the answer to the question that that girl (her name was Charlene) had raised that day in class. The only Bible I had with me was a 1901 ASV with no interpretive notes. What I found was that not only were there no passages that clearly stated that the rapture would take place before the tribulation, there were several that seemed to say the exact opposite. Beside Matthew 24 IIThess. 2:1-3 stuck out in my mind.
        When I finished my military service I was not permitted to return to the Bible College. (I had only been there 2 years before i dropped out for financial reasons). The school had adopted a policy that said that you had to sign the school’s doctrinal statement in order to graduate, and the doctrinal statement included belief in a Pretribulation Rapture. I protested that all i could promise was an open mind and an open Bible, but to no avail. I had to find somewhere else to go to school.

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        • Eliza says:

          Take note the passage you are referencing from 2 Thessalonians says the man of lawlessness will be revealed. The passage does not say the saints will go through the tribulation, it is giving the time frame for the rapture. This passage has to be linked to 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 where God says we are not appointed for wrath after He speaks of the tribulation. It is so clear I wonder that any don’t see it. God bless us.

          Like

          • Bob Wheeler says:

            The reason it is not clear is because the “wrath” of verse 9 probably refers back to the “sudden destruction” of verse 3 and “the day of the Lord” in verse 2, which will not overtake us as a thief (v. 4). And the time frame for the rapture in II Thess. 2 is after the man of sin is revealed, which won’t be until the middle of the tribulation at the earliest.

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  9. ropheka says:

    For me it is ,I think Revelation 14, where after they talk about the 144, 000 they talk about those who have been brought out of the great tribulation. Out of is the word. Noah was brought of the flood, Lot was brought out of Sodoms destruction, those who listened to the prophets were brought of of the destruction of Israel by the Babylonians, those who listened to Christ came of of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The tribulation is for punishment for those who reject Christ so why would Christians be punished?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Eliza says:

      Exactly. Thank you for this great biblical contribution. God bless us.

      Like

    • Bob Wheeler says:

      Christians aren’t being punished in the tribulation — the genuineness of their faith is being tested. I think the problem here is that you’re assuming that the tribulation is exclusively God punishing the world, and overlooking the fact that there obviously are saints alive on the earth at the time who are being persecuted by the Antichrist. Are they being punished by God? And the full punishment of the world by God doesn’t occur until the end of the tribulation, when the Lamb defeats the dragon and the beast at the Battle of Armageddon, and they are cast into the Lake of Fire.

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  10. RaymondTheBrave says:

    Hi Eliza,

    I have a post that outlines the post-tribulation position:

    Link deleted by editor. Look it up on the web if interested.

    Written by David Pawson (there are many other respected men who agree on this subject who were pre-tribulation adherents) who is not always correct I know. He reiterates my questions about a clear scriptural reference to show a Pre-Tribulation rapture linked to escaping Gods wrath. The statement is made that there any many scriptures about escaping God wrath which do not make the final outcome that it is therefore a Pre-Tribulation rapture. Paul comforts the saints by saying they will be spared Gods wrath but not how?

    I am going to address the pre-tribulation position because it is the most popular view in opposition of the post-tribulation view of the rapture. However, it is important to know that the arguments I address deal fundamentally with pre-tribulation and pre-wrath views of the rapture.

    The strength of the pre-tribulation rapture view is not any one particular argument, but rather the sheer number of arguments. There’s no one scripture that can be pointed to, to establish the pre-tribulation position exegetically, but rather a vast number of inferred passages.

    “One of the problems that face… pre-tribulationism …is the fact that [our] point of view is an induction based on scriptural facts rather than an explicit statement of the bible.” (The Rapture Question; page 181)

    The online debates I engage in usually begin with me providing an exegetical presentation of the post-tribulation view. Then my opponents begin a series of “what about” until all of their arguments have been exhausted (with me providing a biblical response to de-construct each one). Then they typically just disappear. This reveals a couple things to me:

    How a person’s view of the rapture is so deeply knit to sentiment based on upbringing, background, emotions, or preconceived suppositions and perceptions.

    Humble and teachable, I promise
    RaymondTheBrave

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    • Eliza says:

      Hi Raymond,
      Please feel free to read all of my posts on the rapture. I know I won’t change my mind for a variety of biblical reasons which are addressed in the posts. Again I would exhort you to study the book of Revelation. There are many reasons through studying this book that make the pre-tribulation rapture the only tenable position. I do appreciate your interest, reading and commenting. Thank you so very much. I do hope the Lord opens your eyes with the Revelation of His Word.

      I do want to leave you with a thought though, many who despise the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture have an agenda that is decidedly against God’s truth and His work. Just something to think about. Blessings through Christ Jesus. Amen!

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      • RaymondTheBrave says:

        Hi Eliza,

        I do not despise the doctrine at all. I have no reason to. It is great news if it is true, but it absolutely will be devastating to everyone who will have to live through the tribulation.

        Let me ask you a very simple question, which of the two options do you think Satan would like us to believe:-

        1. The nice lovely one where we do not go through the tribulation and are raptured away, even though the scripture evidence is not strong and has to depend on the issue of wrath and the number of scriptures containing this word?

        2. We go through a potentially difficult time where we learn to depend on God more fully than we have ever done and the non-believers see God move in their lives through the glorious church seeing miracles, healing and needs being met in the midst of devastation?

        Satan is the great Deceiver and this is one battle He would love to win as believers that are not prepared are going to lose faith and be offended at minimum and asking the question can we trust God as we were told that it is a Pre-Trib Rapture. Did we miss the rapture and we are not saved or have been lied to by so many people. We cant trust what we read in the bible. God said we would not see His wrath, but we are?

        Your comment above shows that you are completely invested in your belief without even looking at what I have said. You have not answered my specific questions. Re-reading Revelations again and again is not going to change the correct Biblical way of studying the word of God.

        I am at complete peace and have been since I came to this truth.

        Please please think about what I have said in my previous comments and this one. Remember we have an adversary that goes around like a roaring lion seeing whom he can devour. Satan has could to steal, kill and destroy mankind. He is always into the long game so we do not see the trap.

        Please listen to my heart by what I have said. Does it sound reasonable that I could have a point. It is not a failure if you have made a mistake, but shows maturity if you can admit I made a mistake. Pride as you know comes before a great Fall. I do not want that for you.

        So not a straightforward answer that we are raptured pre-trib even though the scripture evidence does not add up, or

        Taking what the bible says on face value which is we are on the earth during the tribulation and we see Gods Power demonstrated in the church more powerfully than ever before as we have to depend fully on Him everyday. Many people being saved. God is very patient and kind.

        Love
        Raymond

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        • Eliza says:

          Hi Raymond,
          So, you don’t really want to be encouraged with biblical truth, but you want to argue for your position. It is not good to feign your position in order to get the other person to listen to you. It would have been much better if you had just said what you truly believed.

          I wouldn’t be so sure of arguing from Satan’s perspective, if I were you. Many are the false teachers who oppose this godly doctrine because they have an evil agenda for building their own kingdoms. May God have mercy upon you if you are going to these false teachers for your resources.

          Yes, if you do study the Scriptures, in faith that God wants you to understand His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit, they will enlighten your heart and mind considering this godly doctrine. If you humble yourself God will enlighten your mind through the study of the Book of Revelation. Remember, it is the one book in the New Testament that promises a blessing for those who read it.

          3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:3

          So your final argument is that we will be partakers of God’s wrath. Well, that is in direct contradiction to the Scriptures which state that we are not appointed for wrath. If you study the book of Revelation you will see that the tribulation is the culmination of God’s wrath poured out upon a wicked world that hates Him and despises His people.

          Again, read the Book of Revelation. God has made it perfectly clear that the Church, His truly regenerate ones, are not part of the scene at all. We do appear though, at the marriage supper of the Lamb and when Christ comes to judge the fallen world. We appear with Him in glory clothed in white garments that represent our righteous acts.

          If you want to continue seeking the truth about the rapture, please read the link that I provided for you, please read Revelations, and if you are so inclined, please read the series I wrote from the Scriptures on the blessed doctrine of the parousia, Jesus Christ coming for His beloved bride before the tribulation.

          11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. 15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. Titus 2:11-15

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