Whose Kingdom?

20Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come.  He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’  For indeed , the kingdom of God is within you.”  Luke 17:20-21

 We enter the kingdom of God, or the kingdom of God enters us, when we repent of our sin and place our faith in Jesus Christ believing all that the Scriptures tell us about Him and what He has done for us, that He died upon the cross for our sins, for our reconciliation to God; and rose again from the dead for our justification and sanctification in the truth and godliness.  This is a sovereign supernatural work of the Holy Spirit within the heart of the believer.

5Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.  6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.  7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’  8“The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.  So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”  John 3:5-8

 Today, however, there are many who reign over vast empires within the “visible church”.  For many of us, that engenders in our minds the Vatican ruled over by the pope and his prelates.  When it comes to the “evangelical church” there are many who would be popes ruling and reigning over their enormous enterprises, who just like the pope in Rome, have nothing to do with the genuine kingdom of God.  Their kingdom is a product of the flesh and generates the works of the flesh.

19Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:  adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outburst of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.  Galatians 5:19-21

 Heresy is a work of the flesh and attacks Jesus Christ, who He is, what He has done for us, and what He has said in His Word the inspired, infallible, inerrant Bible.  These men with their large empires teach things that agree with those who have no desire for the sound doctrine of the Scripture, but instead want their fancies entertained as they descend on their way to hell.  They teach doctrines of works righteousness, or doctrines of lasciviousness and greed.  They encourage the lost to set-up their own mini-realms all the while leading them to believe that they are acceptable to God and on their way to heaven.  These would be evangelical popes are pied-pipers leading the lost on the broad way which destines in damnation.    I shudder to think of their horrified reaction when they become fully aware that they have been doomed to destruction because they loved unrighteousness rather than the truth.

2Preach the word!  Be ready in season and out of season.  Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.  3for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4and they will turn their ears ways from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.  2 Timothy 4:2-4

 13”Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.  14Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”  Matthew 7:13-14

 These “Christian” czars are producing fruit that is ripe for the anti-Christ and his kingdom of deception and perdition.  They preach a false way that leads to the end time apostate harlot church and these workers of iniquity will be rewarded for their wicked work.  They cleverly use the truth of the Word of God as wedge within the hearts of those who listen so they can then push in their false teaching, contradicting God’s truth.  God’s elect, who have received the love of the truth, will not be deceived because Jesus ever works on their behalf, but they can lose their reward by following these minions of the enemy of our souls.

9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  13But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.  2 Thessalonians 2:9-13

 16…as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their won destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.  17You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from you won steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  To Him be glory both now and forever.  Amen  2 Peter 3:16-18

 As the beloved by the Lord, how are we to respond to this end time flood of apostasy perpetrated by Satan against the church of the Living God?  We must remember that our Chief Shepherd Jesus Christ is the One Who leads us in the Way.  We must fight the good fight of faith.  We must contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.  We must hold fast our confession made in the presence of many witnesses.  We must share the truth to deliver the deceived out of the clutches of the enemy of our souls!

14”I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.  15As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.  16And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd…25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe.  The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.  26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.  27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.  28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.  29My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and on one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.  30I and My Father are One.”  John 10:14-16 & 25-30

 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.  8Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.  2 Timothy 4:7-8

 12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.  13I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power.  Amen  1 Timothy 6:12-16

 19Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20let him know that he who turns a sinner for the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.  James 5:19-20

These huge works of men bear witness to their opposition to the kingdom of God.  Jesus Christ and His apostles never had great man-made kingdoms that they boasted about; they did the work of for the kingdom of God amidst much opposition and persecution.  Here is a partial list of “Christian” leadership that you must be wary of:  Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Billy and Franklin Graham, John Piper, John MacArthur, James Dobson.  There are more, but these have very large followings and pervert the truth of God.  For a list of contemporary “Christian” leaders to avoid please click this link:


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26 Responses to Whose Kingdom?

  1. Sherry says:

    Wow! I went to that link and learned about one of my favorites as far as posting his quotes: Deitrich Boenhoffer. That’s a serious charge! He’s thought of as a hero of the faith, too. We do need to exercise discernment and that may mean listening to those who know about the person or any belief system. In this day and age of computers and online ministries, like Apprising, we really have no excuse for following anyone willy-nilly. And we must help our brothers and sisters in Christ by exposing these false teachers and helping them to understand they are following a lie and not the truth.

    As far as Joyce Meyer goes, she laughs at those who have tried to correct her and she gets the biggest kick that apologetics ministries attach an “s” to her last name. But we still know exactly who she is, “s,” or no “s.” My mother is a huge fan of hers. I tried to explain to her about Meyer’s false teachings and the usual meme meant to stifle any debate about her was used: “Oh, people are just jealous of her.” So, I did my best and was shut down. No problem, its in the Lord’s hands now. We must do what we must do and leave it with the Lord to sort out. I say that to encourage the brethren because I used to fret when people would not listen to me. It breaks my heart to see our family in Christ believing lies as truth.

    God bless~


  2. Eliza says:

    Dear Sherry,
    Thank you for your comment and willingness to judge all by the Word of God. You are a great encouragement to me. Thank you for your tender heart that desires God’s children to turn from lies and hold fast the truth. This is God the Father’s desire. God bless you:)


  3. Eccl. 7:20–For there is not a just man upon the earth that doeth good and sinneth not.
    So all I have to say is that if we look hard enough we will find sin in all of us. But I think the worst sin is of self righteousness and pride–being like a Pharisee.


  4. Eliza says:

    Thank you for your comment Stephen. I agree that self-righteous pride is a serious sin; it leads to throwing off the truth of the Word of God and teaching things that are in accord with the flesh and have their origins in the deceit of the devil. It is one thing to make a mistake and have a correctable spirit; it is another thing to presumptuously continue in unrepentant error and believe that one is above reproach. This is the attitude of those listed in my post. When confronted with their false doctrine they dig in their heels and continue to hold fast to damnable error and lead many unsuspecting fans in a way that is contrary to God’s way. Billy Graham exalts gross heretics calling them brethren and says that people can be saved apart from conscious faith in Jesus Christ. John MacArthur says that one can take the mark of the beast and still be saved contrary to what the Scriptures clearly teach; John Piper says that C. S. Lewis, a heretic, shed light on his path. We are commanded by Jesus Christ to see to it that no one deceives us.

    And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Mark 13:5-6

    As God’s children we need to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints for God’s glory and the blessing of others. God bless you:)


  5. Pingback: OF INTEREST: Independent Thoughts from Around the Internet June 18, 2014 | End Times Prophecy Report

  6. waldens says:

    A lot of these exposes at the link you mention are rightful warnings.
    However how can Martin Luther whom God used to start the Reformation be among these wolves ?
    This is evil as Martin Luther was and is a true brother in Christ who preached the true Gospel.


  7. Eliza says:

    Thank you for visiting and commenting. Martin Luther continued with the sacramental gospel that was put in place by the Catholic church, handed to the church by Augustine. Luther believed in and taught in his Larger and Shorter Catechisms baptismal regeneration, adding works to faith, and consubstantiation, which means that the blood and body of Christ abides in bread and wine. Both of these doctrines are false and attack the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod was founded upon Luther’s Catechism. My husband and I discovered this when we visited this church in our area and were shocked by how the service was very Catholic. When the Lutheran pastor presented communion we had to leave rather than participate because of the heresy of this false teaching. If you read what the author has to say then you will understand why Luther is included in the list of false teachers which need to be avoided.
    Additionally, Luther was very violent towards any who disagreed with him and fiercely persecuted the Jews. This persecution of the Jews taught and practiced by Luther was incorporated into Nazi dogma. The article also states that Luther worshiped Mary, which makes sense since just like Calvin he held to the teachings of Augustine, and Augustine taught the worship of Mary. Luther also believed in and taught infant baptism which also came from Augustine. He justified this by believing the apostles taught this doctrine, although there isn’t a word about it in the Scriptures.

    Augustine (354-430)

    Augustine was polluted with many false doctrines and helped lay the foundation for the formation of the Roman Catholic Church. For this reason Rome has honored Augustine as one of the “doctors of the church.”

    1. He was a persecutor and the father of the doctrine of persecution in the Catholic Church.

    The historian Neander observed that Augustine’s teaching “contains the germ of the whole system of spiritual despotism, intolerance, and persecution, even to the court of the Inquisition.” Augustine instigated persecutions against the Bible-believing Donatists who were striving to maintain pure churches after the apostolic faith. He interpreted Luke 14:23 (“compel them to come in”) to mean that Christ required the churches to use force against heretics.

    2. He was the father of a-millennialism, allegorizing Bible prophecy and teaching that the Catholic Church is the kingdom of God.

    3. He taught that the sacraments are the means of saving grace.

    4. He was one of the fathers of infant baptism. The ‘council’ of Mela, in Numidia, A.D. 416, composed of merely fifteen persons and presided over by Augustine, decreed: “Also, it is the pleasure of the bishops in order that whoever denies that infants newly born of their mothers, are to be baptized or says that baptism is administered for the remission of their own sins, but not on account of original sin, delivered from Adam, and to be expiated by the laver of regeneration, BE ACCURSED” (Wall, The History of Infant Baptism, I, 265). Augustine thus taught that infants should be baptized and that the baptism took away their sin. He called all who rejected infant baptism “infidels” and “cursed.”

    5. He taught that Mary did not commit sin and promoted her worship. He believed Mary played a vital role in salvation (Augustine, Sermon 289, cited in Durant, The Story of Civilization, 1950, IV, p. 69).

    6. He believed in purgatory.

    7. He accepted the doctrine of “celibacy” for “priests,” supporting the decree of “Pope” Siricius of 387 that ordered that any priest that married or refused to separate from his wife should be disciplined.

    8. He exalted the authority of the church over that of the Bible, declaring, “I should not believe the gospel unless I were moved to do so by the authority of the Catholic Church” (quoted by John Paul II, Augustineum Hyponensem, Apostolic Letter, Aug. 28, 1986, http://www.cin.org/jp2.ency/augustin.html).

    9. He believed that the true interpretation of Scripture was derived from the declaration of church councils (Augustine, De Vera Religione, xxiv, p. 45).

    10. He interpreted the early chapters of Genesis figuratively (Dave Hunt, “Calvin and Augustine: Two Jonahs Who Sink the Ship,” Debating Calvinism: Five Points, Two Views by Dave Hunt and James White, 2004, p. 230).

    11. He taught that God has pre-ordained some for salvation and others for damnation and that the grace of God is irresistible for the true elect. By his own admission, John Calvin in the 16th century derived his TULIP theology on the “sovereignty of God” from Augustine. Calvin said: “If I were inclined to compile a whole volume from Augustine, I could easily show my readers, that I need no words but his” (Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, chap. 22).

    12. He taught the heresy of apostolic succession from Peter (Hunt, ibid., p. 230).

    Taken from the Church Fathers: A Door to Rome found at Way of Life Literature.


    God bless you:)


  8. waldens says:

    I am sorry, if Luther has this expose and is put amongst these wolves, I consider this to be slander of the saints. This is very evil as God used Luther by His Spirit to start the Reformation. The only reason you are now not under Roman Catholic darkness is because Luther stood up.

    Dave Hunt who like Luther is also in eternity, considered Calvinism a false Calvinism.
    Spurgeon called Calvinism THE Gospel.

    That is the difference between calling Luther a heretic or not.

    It is slander of brother Luther and it is very evil, the one writing this expose and yourself should first right an expose on yourself containing ten times more pages on your sins and doctrinal failures before you make an expose on Luther.

    God used Luther to start the Reformation, this is fact in churchhistory and changed the course of history, who remembers Dave Hunt, wayoflife and yourself ?


  9. Eliza says:

    The problems with Calvinism are many. The doctrines espoused by Calvin subtly attack the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have heard pastors say that the teachings of Calvin (not outright but by his doctrine) are the gospel. God’s Word says that the gospel is that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, was buried and rose again the third day, according to the Scriptures. He tells us through Paul that belief in the gospel is the means of our salvation. The reformation was started to reform the Catholic church, which is so corrupt, it cannot be reformed.
    My husband and I were aghast by the Catholic nature of the service conducted at the Lutheran Missouri Synod church we attended. This accords with what the author wrote about the teachings of Luther. I am sorry this has offended you but we must agree with God though every man is a liar. We must be led by the Holy Spirit and His Word and not the teachings of man. If doctrine attacks the perfect work of Christ by adding works to it, then it is not the gospel, but is false. God bless you:)


  10. waldens says:

    Bunyan and Spurgeon were Calvinists.

    Bunyan wrote Pilgrim’s Progress, a book loved by all Christians in all ages as it describes their experimental experience/ journey to the heavenly Jerusalem.
    Spurgeon’s thousands sermons are also loved and recognized by all Christians.

    If you are true to your conviction you have to name both Bunyan and Spurgeon heretics because of their calvinism, who brought a false gospel and are therefore to be shunned according to many bibletexts. Same you should do with Calvin, the English Puritans, the Scottish Covenanters and Jonathan Edwards.

    I urge you to reconsider your position.

    As your position against Calvinism has the whole Body of Christ to back it up, I don’t enter into further discussion as the material which refutes your position is so extensive that the reason you take this position is either you are blind or you are deluded.

    To say you love Christ and His Body and then call His Gospel false and the belief of His People (amongst whom Calvin, the English Puritans, the Scottish Covenanters, Jonathan Edwards, Spurgen, Bunyan, Matthew Henry, the Westminster Assembly, the Dordt Assemble, the hundreds of reformed confession that came out of the Reformation
    http://www.heritagebooks.org/products/reformed-confessions-of-the-16th-and-17th-centuries-in-english-translation-4-vols-set-1523-1693.html) also as false is truly a sign of either blindness, or delusion or simply evil.

    The reason I don’t enter into further discussion with you is not that I am not able, just that I consider discussing Calvinism (aka the True Gospel according to Spurgeon) with someone who with an open Bible thinks he can refute it, just as insane as having to prove to someone that the sun rises everyday to a person who with open eyes tells me that it doesn’t.

    To be wrong on the essentials of the Gospel means one believes a false gospel. Thus either those believing Calvinism believed the True Gospel or you who consider Calvinism a false gospel while claiming to believe with the same bible the true gospel.

    Please reconsider.


  11. waldens says:

    I wrote something wrong.
    This sentence ‘As your position against Calvinism has the whole Body of Christ to back it up’ should be ‘As your position against Calvinism has the whole body of Christ against it.’


  12. Eliza says:

    Let’s just forget that Calvin followed Augustine a rank heretic who is the father of the Catholic church and also Calvinism. Let’s forget that Calvin embraced Augustine’s heresies such as limited atonement and a fatalism that barely requires faith in the recipient of God’s grace. Let’s also forget that Calvin embraced infant baptism as a means of dispensing God’s grace to the child who is baptized, more rank heresy. Let’s forget the fact that Calvin started his own little empire in Geneva where he brutally persecuted and murdered those who disagreed with him. Oh by the way, these rank heresies, religious empires and persecution and murder of those who disagree with you, were also embraced by Augustine, hence the Catholic church. I have read Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion, have you? I have read and studied many of the Puritan writers, have you? The Puritans embraced Covenant theology which hearkens back to the law and denies the eschatology taught in the Scriptures, replacing the nation of Israel with the church, that is Scripture twisting and this has led to the heresy of preterism.

    I started on this path by God’s grace through rejecting the false teachers C. S. Lewis and Hannah Hurnard. I was perplexed as to why those who embrace Calvinism were so quick to embrace Lewis and others like C. K. Chesterton, a practicing Catholic. Then as I dug deeper I found that those who followed Calvin were already following a rank heretic, Augustine. I reject error that attacks our glorious Savior Jesus Christ and His wonderful gospel of grace, and/or twists the Scriptures.

    It was only after I laid aside the teachings of men that the blinders were removed and I was able to see the glory of the gospel of Jesus Christ taught to us in the Holy Scriptures even more clearly. I don’t deny that God is sovereign in the work of salvation and has chosen those who believe before the foundation of the earth, because it is taught in the Scriptures, not because Calvin taught it. I don’t deny that God draws us to Himself by His Spirit, also taught in the Scriptures, regardless of what anyone else may say. But the gospel of Jesus Christ isn’t the sovereignty of God in the matter of salvation or the depravity of the sinner, it is that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, according to the Scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. God saves us through belief in the gospel alone! And this gospel of Jesus Christ is truly and genuinely offered to all.

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 1 Corinthians 15:1-11

    I am not responsible for others embracing Calvin and I don’t have to answer for them, but I do have to answer to God for believing the gospel of His salvation and exhorting others to throw off the works and words of men and embrace God’s Word, the Bible. Are you arguing against this? Calvin isn’t the Savior, Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ is the One who saves the sinner, not Calvin, nor the works of Calvin, nor the followers of Calvin. I am saved by grace through faith, which is the gift of God, not by my works so that I cannot boast. I am walking in the works that God has prepared for me before the foundation of the world that I may honor and glorify Him.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

    Check out Dr. Paul Elliot and what he has to say on this matter.



  13. waldens says:

    yes, I read Calvin’s institutes, yes, I have been reading the English puritans, Scottish covenanters, Edwards, Bunyan, Henry, Calvin, Spurgeon, the Westminster Standards, the Dordt Canons for the last 15 years.

    All of them clearly preached the Scriptural Gospel of Sovereign Grace which according to Spurgeon is nicknamed Calvinism. The true Gospel which for me is a smell of life.

    Yes, I know the slander of Calvin on Servetus and I know its circumstances. I also know the 6000 pages of John Foxes book of Martyrs and the persecutions of those who had Calvin as their pastor and those who agreed with the teachings of Calvin and Luther and for that were persecuted in Europe by the Inquisition.

    For the last 15 years I have been reading and studying the commentaries of Calvin on Scripture, I don’t read anything of somekind of dictator or persecutor.

    Again whether you like it or not, either Calvin, Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, Bunyan, Henry, the English puritans, the Scottish covenanters, the Westminster Assembly preached a false gospel or you do. Those who preached and believed a false gospel are lost or in a lost condition.

    You must consider Spurgeon and Bunyan to be heretics, false teachers and liars as they openly and without any reserve preached the doctrines of Calvinism. This in line with Augustine and Calvin. You may go anywhere in the world amongst biblebelieving Christians and call Spurgeon and Bunyan preachers of a false gospel and you will put yourself in a place of great suspicion or immediately after several conversations under churchdiscipline.

    Your remarks about teaching of men is nonsense as Calvin, the English puritans, the Scottish covenanters, Jonathan Edwards, Bunyan, Henry, Spurgeon, the Westminster Assembly and the Dordt Assembly taught very clearly that Gods Word is the highest authority above any man made doctrine which is not according to God’s Word.

    You are wrong.


  14. Eliza says:

    Well, I guess that I am in the minority, because I am a follower of Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I don’t have to read the works of all of the men that you quoted to know the truth, I can open the Word of God, the Bible, and trust the Holy Spirit to lead me into all truth. It is a sad thing that Calvin taught error and has led many astray. He was led astray by Augustine. You haven’t taken the time to address the heresies of Augustine that I presented here, you have only used your thought and energy to attack me. If what I have said about Augustine isn’t true then show me my error. If it is true then why are you so energetic in defending a heretic?

    If the Reformation was such a powerful work of God, then why are Protestant churches seeking reconciliation with the Catholic church? Why is there within the movement such an affinity for those who teach false doctrine, like C. S. Lewis, among many others? Why is there the testimony of so many who at one time embraced church denominations of the Protestant reformation rejecting those doctrines and returning to the Catholic church, and even going beyond accepting rank heretical ecumenism?

    If the Protestant reformation was such a powerful work for the restoration of true religion then why are these denominations apostate rejecting the supreme authority of the Word of God and instead embracing the authority of men. It could be that the genesis of the reformation rested upon, again the authority of men, and not, without reservation, upon the authority of God’s Word. It seems that one pope has been traded for another, because everything that you have said, any individual or group that follows the works of men could say about the one they are devoted to. I didn’t notice your use of Scripture in defending your position nor have you said anything about our glorious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, you have only been talking about men; men who are easily deceived and led astray.

    Following men causes division within the body of Christ, while following Christ and adhering to His pure doctrine found alone in the Scriptures unites. Your vigorous defense of Calvin has been repeated many times over throughout church history and has only led to the splintering that we see exacerbated throughout the Reformation movement. Where are all of these denominations today? They are apostate, fallen from within. They believed that they could build their consensus and “work” for God around the doctrines of men, but that is impossible, we are called to humbly follow Jesus Christ and believe what He has told us in His Word the Bible. Can and does God teach us His Word by His Holy Spirit without the encumbrance of the doctrines of men that attack the Gospel and God’s Son Jesus Christ? Does God’s Word teach the baptism of infants as a means of God’s grace to that child because of the profession of faith of the baby’s parent(s)? Grace is given to us by God through faith in Jesus Christ and His wondrous efficacious work for us upon the cross of the punishment of our sins, which He took in our stead, and His glorious victory over sin, satan and death for our victory and justification. It is said in defense of infant baptism that it is not prohibited in the Scriptures and continues the sign of the Covenant, that was circumcision, under the Old Covenant of the Law. However, Paul, in Galatians, makes the case that those who become circumcised for justification have fallen from grace, and that circumcision counts for nothing, the only thing that matters is the new creation which only comes about through faith in Jesus Christ, something an infant is incapable of, unless ordained of God as in the case of John the Baptist. So the false teaching of God’s grace conferred upon infants at baptism has filled the rolls of many churches with those who believe they are going to heaven because of their baptism as infants, but are dead in their trespasses and sins because the only covenantal sign that accompanies salvation is the new creation.

    14 God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything , but a new creation. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.Galatians 6:14-16

    The rule that we are to follow as a sign of the grace given to us by salvation through faith in Jesus Christ is that we are new creatures in Christ, old things have passed away behold all things have become new.

    Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

    Division created by following men is carnal, of the flesh and only promotes arrogance and division.

    1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 1 Corinthians 3:1-7

    If divisions are caused by adherence to those who taught false doctrine then imagine how much greater is the disobedience to God by those who promote and follow men rather than holding to Jesus Christ.


  15. waldens says:

    Why have you deleted my last response ?


  16. Eliza says:

    Again, you are defending the indefensible. How is limited atonement a biblical doctrine? It is nowhere taught in the Scriptures and has its origins in Augustine. This is what the Scriptures say:

    1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

    15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:15-17

    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one god and one Mediator between god and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle-I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying-a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-7

    The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29

    16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:16-18

    Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world. John 4:42

    32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” John 6:32-33

    47 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world. John 6:47-51

    12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will acceptance be but life from the dead? Romans 11:12-15

    17 Therefore, is anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors fro Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:17-21

    9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also out to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has give us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 1 John 4:9-15

    Nowhere does God’s Word say the atonement of Christ is limited. This is a perfect example of false teachers ignoring what God’s Word says in order to support their false teaching and human reasoning.

    The Scriptures teach that God is sovereign and He does as He pleases throughout the earth. The Scriptures teach the gospel is held out to sinners, and those who repent and believe are saved. The Scriptures teach that God draws us to Himself by the work of His Holy Spirit using His Word, not the word of feeble man. We are redeemed through faith in Jesus Christ as amply taught in the Bible. God gives His general sincere call to all, but His effectual call is given to His elect. Without the work of God on our behalf we could not believe being dead in our trespasses and sins, alienated from the life of God, without Him and without hope in this world. I believe what the Bible teaches, that we receive the gift of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ and the glorious perfect work that He has accomplished for us through the will of the Father, when He offered Himself as the spotless Lamb to be the propitiation for our sins, and then rose again from the dead that He may give eternal life to all who will believe.

    3 Blessed by the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as he chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Hi we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth-in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all thing according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in christ should be to the praise of His glory. 11 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:1-14

    4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. Titus 3:3-8

    21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnesses by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart for the deeds of the law. Romans 3:21-28

    Unlike you, I am not following the tradition or teaching of any man or body, I am following what God has told me in His Holy Word, the Bible, by His Holy Spirit. Your argument isn’t with me it is with what God has told us in His Word the Bible which is contrary to what men teach and follow. I am not interested in following Calvin, Arminius, or any other preacher/teacher of man’s doctrines. These divisions come about because men think that they can reason out the truth which is standing on quicksand. The truth is revealed to us through the Holy Bible by the Holy Spirit because of the grace of God given to us in His Son Jesus Christ as we repent of our sin and put our faith in Him. Divine truth can only be known by God’s grace as He teaches us through His Word by His Spirit, anyone who thinks they can come to the revelation of the truth by their own reasoning is a fool; they will always and invariably twist the Scripture and ignore the truth.


  17. Eliza says:

    I deleted your last response because I don’t want to participate in promoting error.


  18. Eliza says:

    Don’t think for a moment that I want to partake of the error that you are promoting, by God’s grace I do not and will not. You haven’t answered the true charges against Augustine’s false teaching that were incorporated into the heresies of Calvin and Luther. If you want to look at those false doctrines and then consider how they have negatively impacted the church then I am interested in continuing to exhort you, if not, then I have nothing further to say.

    By the way the Presbyterian Church USA voted 76 to 24 to allow Presbyterian ministers to marry homosexual couples. This is what the reformation denominations have descended to .


  19. waldens says:

    By your replies you make it very clear that what you believe in the core doctrines of the Gospel decides where you stand towards the True Bride of Christ.

    Please reconsider and at least study the material given. If your position is biblical it will only strengthen your position, of not it will show you why you are wrong. To delete without investigating and calling it error before you even made an attempt to read it is behaviour that belongs to the Roman Catholic church who also did not even want to hear anything that went against her. That because when the RC would accept one opening the whole fabric would fall down.

    If your children turn out to be ungodly and openly break many commandments, should therefore your faith be thrown in the dustbin ? No, one should say that although the children act ungodly on their own accord they show by those actions they have no part in the faith of their mother.

    If you use this kind of reasoning you should also look to those who believe in unlimited atonement (like the evangelical camp in the USA and the RC) and then accept that on the basis of the same reasoning your faith can be considered false as those who believe in unlimited atonement (plus deny the other doctrines of the TULIP) worship falsely, are worldly, are hypocrites, are full of false bibles and false doctrines and are no salting salt.

    In my opinion you are highly prejudiced and in your position wrong.
    You must conclude that I believe in error, believe a false gospel and am unsaved.
    I must conclude the same and reject the biblical testimony of my brothers and sisters in Christ, thereby showing it is no smell of life to you. This fruit I must consider as coming from an enemy.
    These are the only conlcusions I can make, must make and expect you also make regarding me.

    As it is God who saves, I hope to see you in heaven, but that will be in truth and that means that either I or you have to make a fundamental change in the way we look to the Scriptures, the doctrines of Christ and our understanding of true and false teachers.


  20. waldens says:

    This sentence ‘I must conclude the same and reject the biblical testimony of my brothers and sisters in Christ, thereby showing it is no smell of life to you.’ should be ‘I must conclude the same regarding you and your rejecting the biblical testimony of my brothers and sisters in Christ means to me it is no smell of life to you.’


    • Eliza says:

      Dear Pastor Joe,
      Thank you for sharing. We do know that the Scriptures teach the utter inability of the sinner to respond to God and His revelation which He has given to us apart from His drawing us and opening our hearts to believe. We also know that God’s Word teaches His divine prerogative in saving sinners. Scripture also declares that our salvation, redemption, reconciliation with God is all due to the faithful, loving work of another on our behalf, the Lord Jesus Christ, who died in our stead, taking the punishment we deserve and rose again from the dead triumphing over sin, death and the devil because He is God the Son of God and procured our victory through His victory. God’s Word tells us that we have this forgiveness of sins and reconciliation with God the Father through faith in His Son Jesus Christ because of God’s grace and love.

      1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desire of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:1-9

      The gift of salvation is truly and freely offered to all who will repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. For God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

      11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have know Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 1 We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
      2 Corinthians 5:11-6:1

      God’s Word also makes it clear that should we move away from the hope given to us in the gospel of our salvation then we have believed in vain. Not that we have lost our salvation, but our profession of faith wasn’t genuine and did not have the benefit of God’s enlivening work in our hearts and lives.

      1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you -unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all he was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. 1 Corinthians 15:1-11

      We are saved through belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no other gospel of our salvation. Thank you Jesus Christ for saving us through Your death and resurrection. If the doctrine of any overthrows the sure Word of God then we must abandon that doctrine and the one who teaches it, and hold fast to the truth of God’s Word. Yes, there is tension in the Scripture, but as you aptly made clear, we must believe what the Bible says and not work to reconcile what may appear to us to be disparate with our limited human reasoning. It seems to me that controversies and arguments within the church have arisen because we have tried to set up doctrine to deal with the tensions that God has revealed to us in His Word rather than just believing and trusting what He has said regardless of the tension. Of course, this is not the only reason for the divisions, heresy also enters in, but they are there in part because of this fact.

      Pastor Joe, I appreciate your work to apply clarity to the discussion/;argument. It was helpful to me and I hope that it was helpful to waldens. This disagreement started because of a link I included that warned against Luther and had nothing to say about Calvin. My concerns with Calvin stem from his teaching on infant baptism, and his great reliance upon Augustine who was a heretic and how giving room to one heretic allows for the entrance of others. God bless you:)


    • Eliza says:

      I am not too sure where in the Scriptures God has given us limited knowledge. I do believe that He has written His Word in such a way that His children can know the truth. Jesus said that if we continue in His Word then we are His disciples indeed, or truly, and we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free. (John 8:31-32) Based on what Jesus Christ said, there must be one and only interpretation of the Scriptures, since truth is exclusive from all error. It doesn’t matter what our interpretation is of the Scriptures, concerning doctrine, what matters is that we have Christ’s interpretation of the Scriptures by the power of the Holy Spirit. Those who are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit will not come up with the correct interpretation of what God says in His Word and this is where division and multiple interpretations of the Scriptures comes from. Yes, we must be Bereans and make sure these things are so and then align what we believe with what God has said in His Word. God bless you.


  21. Eliza says:

    All I can say is that I love the Lord Jesus Christ and want to please Him. I will stand fast and true for Him no matter what. He is the One who has redeemed my soul from the just wrath that I deserved because of my sinful rebellion against God and He has given me eternal life. His life in me by the indwelling Holy Spirit compels me to stand for the truth just as He did during His earthly stay.

    33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?” 35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have you done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” 37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” 38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” And when he have said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them “I find no fault in Him at all. John 18:33-38

    How does one hear the voice of Jesus? Surely not through the garbled doctrines of men. The doctrines that you are espousing have the same headwaters as the doctrines of the Catholic church, which is Augustine. This is the reason for the error within the church at large, because the reformers never threw off the false teachings of Augustine. This heresy has infected the body so that now those who claim to be Christians are willing to accept any and all manner of false teaching embracing the one who promotes it as a genuine believer. But this is not what God’s Word says. He commands us to test all things and to turn away from every form of evil, that includes the musings of men that twist the Scriptures to uphold their vain wanderings from the truth.

    We hear the voice of Jesus Christ through His Word the Bible. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? The doctrines of men attack and usurp the truth of the Scriptures. We must hold fast to the Word of God, reject the lies and be champions for God’s Word.

    I have already examined the doctrines of the Calvinists. I disproved the doctrine of limited atonement with the Word of God. I disproved the doctrine of infant baptism with the Word of God. I disproved the Calvinist doctrine of fatalism with the Word of God. Strange doctrines are wrest from the Word of God by those who do not know how to handle the Word of righteousness and do not rightly divide the Word of truth. They rely upon their fallen reason, or the intellect of fallen man, rather than the Holy Spirit to teach them. Ask yourself, why did Jesus Christ choose men as his disciples who had not gone through the rigorous religious instruction of the Pharisees and Sadducees? He wanted men who were not corrupted by the damnable doctrines of men as made plain by His indictment of these religious zealots on numerous occasions.

    12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 Timothy 3:12-4:4

    Those verses pretty much sum it all up. Either stick with the Word of God or be a deceived deceiver. The choice is simple follow Jesus and stand for the truth or follow man and be deceived by the lie. You should read this post:



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  24. Eliza says:

    I did want to clarify that I am not endorsing nor do I accept as biblical the doctrines that came out of Calvin’s teaching; limited atonement, sovereign grace replacing the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the weak emphasis placed upon believing the truth. God bless you:)


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